It was a piece of legislation introduced by an elected Representative from Texas with 12 (also elected) co-sponsors. There was a similar bill introduced to the Senate by elected senators. Elect different people you get different bills proposed. Don’t like what bills they propose, vote them out.
It wasn’t until public protest from ordinary people engaged in politics, as well as internet companies (like Wikipedia and Google), swayed opinion on it that it was postponed. Not deleted. Postponed. Get enough people together who like it and it will be brought forth again.
When I saw the thread title I assumed it would be
“Yes, having Hillary as POTUS might upgrade my life by $100,000 or so compared with Trump but it’s a $10 inconvenience to vote, and my vote has less than 0.001% chance of being decisive, so I’m making the percentage play, expectation-wise!”
I could accept that. But instead we have Ask the guy who’s sane and smart enough to be an SDMB Mod but knows absolutely zero about the real world and wouldn’t lift a finger to save a million lives.(Yes, the repeal of ACA alone will cost many thousands of lives. Note that GWB’s military mistakes cost millions of lives and GWB was smart and saintly compared to the Man in Orange.)
I’ve thought of starting a thread Ask the idiot savant who retired to live in an Asian jungle.
but have refrained to avoid embarrassment. Thanks OP; I don’t feel as bad anymore.
Seriously, how in hell did you get to be a Mod, in a site dedicated to fighting ignorance? Apparently, their standards, if any, are at an all-time low. You are beneath contempt.
The thing is, “politics” is gonna take your money, whether you want it to or not. And they’re gonna do stuff with that money. By not voting, you’re saying you don’t care about your money, how much of it you get to keep or what they do with what they take from it.
By not voting, you’re saying you don’t care how the government treats people using the money they took from you. You’re saying you don’t care if they use your money to kill orphans in Sri Lanka, or buy heroin to give to nuns, or whatever else they may do with your money.
By not voting, you’re saying that you don’t care if they restrict your right to read whatever you want.
By not voting, you’re saying you don’t care what happens to the internet, or to YouTube or to Facebook.
ALL things are political things, because politics has the power to affect each of them directly. And politicians ARE going to take your money, in the form of taxes. The system we set up in the United States allows us all to voice our desires at the ballot box; it makes no sense to me to not exercise what little influence each of us have by refusing to vote. Again: they will take your money and use it; why not have a say in how it is used?
I might not see things done as I want, but I care enough to make the effort to try and not have my money used on things I don’t want or consider bad ideas or just plain harmful stuff.
So I ask again, Idle Thoughts: what do you care about?
We may be at crux point here, in that your definition of “caring” may not at all match mine. Feel free to elaborate on what you think it means when you say you care about something.
Was your family politically engaged or politically apathetic? Are your views also reflective of your family, or more your own personal opinions?
Do you think people have any obligations to their communities or people around them that goes beyond the bare minimum of “don’t commit crimes, whether that be robbery or evading taxes?”
Many people think that Americans who participated in the civil rights movement of the 1960s are heroes, to various degrees. Some were murdered for their activities, some were jailed, and many more risked such retaliation even if they didn’t suffer it. What do you think about those protesters and their movement? Is it the same sort of, “Eh, not really interested” view?
It sounds like you’re on disability. Is that correct? If so, is it your assumption that other people in your community/country will make sure that those benefits will be there for people who need them?
There’s various smart people who have asserted that boredom with something is not a reflection of the qualities of that thing, but it is a reflection of one’s own choice on how to react to things. For example, if someone says, “I’m so bored today – this sucks!” there is nothing about Tuesday, November 8th that is compelling someone to be bored. Instead, the choice of that person not to engage in any fulfilling activity is the problem. The person choosing to do nothing is the issue, one cannot blame the thing.
What do you think about this theory? When you encounter something that bores you, whether it is politics, sports, or whatever, do you generally focus on why those things are deficient and fail to hold your attention; or do you ever wonder why millions of people find such things fascinating, but you choose not to put any effort into understanding or appreciating them? (Or maybe you just never think about this question?)
Well I understand where you are coming from and it’s a perfectly valid point of view. It’s your life and you can choose how to live as you wish with the usual disclaimers.
My reason for voting isn’t so much the issues or the particular politicians. My reason for voting is that process matters. We are fortunate to live in a time and place in which we have self rule. We are fortunate to live in a time and place in which the transfer of power is orderly and peaceful.
It’s important that citizens are vested in the process and the work that are integral to self governance. We need the buy in from a large portion of the populace that even if the outcomes aren’t what we wanted or desired that we will support the outcome because the process was followed fairly.
This is the source of my contention with modern liberalism and the desire for the many to “interpret” new law and meaning that don’t exist in the source of federal power. The issue is one of procedure. Even if you agree with an outcome like for example homosexual marriage, if the process to legalize it was flawed it’s not good.
But back to voting. I didn’t vote for Trump. I didn’t vote for Crooked Hilary either. I don’t care if you voted for Trump or Clinton. That’s your choice. I don’t care if you didn’t vote. I just care that people don’t take for granted the civilization that they live in. And even if you don’t take advantage of your rights at least appreciate that you do exist in a remarkable time historically speaking for liberty.
And I don’t think you are mandated or should feel shamed into participating in self governance. We all know that our one vote is 1/x and won’t be the deciding factor. But that’s irrelevant. Participating in the civic realm and being part of the peaceful transfer of power is an important ritual for the populace.
The way we live currently isn’t a given. You might miss it someday.
TLDR: The outcome is secondary.
Trump is irrelevant to the bigger issue. Trump wouldn’t even be that bad to be honest. Even though I didn’t vote for him it’s not the end of the world if he does win.
So…if I don’t vote, those things (internet, FB, Youtube) will cease to exist? And I won’t be allowed to read any more because the government will ban it?
Consider me dubious.
The stuff I already listed, which I seriously doubt the world will lose or be in danger of not having any more just because I didn’t cast my single vote.
So…by choosing to give up my right to vote, apparently I’m going to be killing MILLIONS of people. Millions of people’s lives ARE AT STAKE and hinge on MY SOLE VOTE. Gosh, who knew I was so important in this world?
Apparently I’m going to kill millions and I’m one of the biggest, evil, horrible, deplorable, "beyond contempt"able person on the planet for not voting. Who knew that not voting made you literally Hitler? Holy shit.
Yes. My dad doesn’t vote either and thinks it’s a waste of time and my mom decided not to vote once Bernie was out of it. She was acting like she was going to vote for Trump for awhile there, but decided not to, in the end.
Eh, that’s a hard, tricky question which, I think, has a lot more than a simple answer. I’d wager “help out your fellow person wherever you can” is good too, but there are a few more things that make my answer more complex. I’d have to think about it for a bit.
I think it was great that they did that and that it’s a big part of how we came to be as a society today. I consider them heroes myself.
Yes, I am…and yes.
I usually don’t bother overthinking it. Everyone has their interests and hobbies. To me, politics is an INTEREST. One I just don’t have. It’s a boring subject to me…kinda like Math is.
I just think he’s feeling neglected today, when so many of us have voted or will vote. And are very interested in the outcome. Even some who cannot vote here have expressed their concern.
Why not just ignore him? He’s boring & incurious. That’s certainly his right, but it doesn’t make him interesting.
This is my second post in this thread. Two posts too many!
There’s actually stuff going on today. Even if you don’t care about the election, why not post about something you do find worthwhile? Instead of poor, poor, pitiful me. Please pay attention to me!
Look, even if I did vote, I have NO IDEA or caring about issues or what anyone stands for. I couldn’t tell you what a conservative or democrat is…or a liberal or republican. Who stands for what? Who believes in what? Which parties take a stand on what things?
Do you really want me going out and making the most uninformed, ignorant, uneducated votes one can possibly make? I’d think that’d be WORSE than not voting at all. Fine, I’ll vote. I’ll vote Trump. How’s that? Now which is worse, voting Trump or not voting at all?
See, it just doesn’t make any sense. I should be allowed to give up my right to vote…and sure, you have the right to think of me how you want for that…
…but to me, getting super angry at someone who doesn’t want to vote is a very, very small and petty reason to be upset at someone or upset in general, …right below “Reason number 3,524: You accidentally stepped on your own shoelace resulting in it becoming untied” and right above “Reason number 3,522: The shit you just took plopped so hard into the toilet that it splashed water all over your ass cheeks”.
To me, someone saying “Eh, I don’t vote” invokes a “Hm. shrugs Okay” reaction in me… Not a frothing at the mouth, deep anger that makes me think they’re going to sacrifice babies and small animals and gleefully murder ten million random strangers.
But not voting is a proper signal. I just don’t think it’s interpreted properly. I don’t believe in compulsory voting because I don’t think the dumb and lazy need extra punishment besides not being counted in decision making. I also don’t know how to educate folks about the dangers of complacency with the status quo with regards to democracy.
But I don’t think anyone has said that you shouldn’t have the right to not vote. And the vast majority of the criticism, I believe, has been pretty mild – very, very little “frothing at the mouth, deep anger…”, if any. From what I can tell most of it has been “hey, you should vote” or “it’s very slightly wrong to not vote”.
Dude… I like you. Always have. But how the hell can you continue being a moderator of a message board that strives to “fight ignorance” when you say things like this?
Or turn in an empty ballot like someone else said. Hey we have some wacky amendments that I have no idea what they mean or what will actually happen and I abstain from marking those. I know Johnson isn’t winning my state but I wasn’t going to vote for The Donald or Crooked. Plus it was nice seeing and talking to random people in line.
We can transfer power this way. Or we can do it Negan style.
Anyways, fun thread. Too many people fixated on outcome instead of process though. Makes me sad. Gotta check this thread out tonight and see what people got to say. If your state goes to The Donald by one don’t admit it. You’ll see how “tolerant” many aren’t.
