Well we missed each other by six years–I left in 1983 
I’ve heard that the 8th ID was deactivated sometime in the '90s, but don’t know that for sure.
The Division colors were cased in January of 1992. I left in November 1991. Before I left I turned the lights off in two different battalions. BK and a lot of the other division properties were turned over to the 1st Armor Division.
JR thanks for your input.
Mine was not an tin-war or even anti-recruiter screed. Trust me, I could do that one if I wanted to
Rather, my point was given as an experienced manager who has driven teams hard to near impossible goals.
His original post to me (along with other first hand recruiter stories I have read recently) is a sign that the recruiting function is breaking down. For SSG it is as though he is operating in a drought and is under pressure to feed the world. Once something sprouts, he puts all his efforts into it, work wise, and emotionally, trying to bring it along to harvest. so when it does not make it to harvest, and the worlds remains unfed, he is devastated personally.
The weight of the wold is on his shoulders, I see that. If there were plenty of other sprouts to tend to, that one was not productive at harvest time would mean nothing. But that is not how it is - people are not willing to join up in sufficient numbers. I know it is not the recruiter’s fault, but instead of the front lines of battle, they get to be on the front lines of opinion in a sense. No one said any military job is easy.
Opinions in this country are expressed in a myriad of ways, and our founders wanted it that way deliberately. Direct contact with elected officials, regular elections contested, separation of powers,checks and balances, freedom of speech and all that.
Personally, I don’t know who the recruiters are in this town, and although I know where their storefronts are, I never even have cause to go to that side of the strip mall. I am not harassing them. But no way should they be insulated from direct mood of the people. People have choices in their careers, even in this town were 75% have a HS education or less. If what you are selling is not appealing relative to other choices, well it is not your fault personally, but it is not something you should pretend is not true either.
Right now, car salesmen can’t sell a thing either, but at least they can choose a different career. You chose the military a long time ago, and whether you realized it or not, you took your chances on how you would be assigned.
It is not like this country does not have a history of objecting to the induction one way or another of its youth in unpopular wars. You know that. last time, there was a draft, and because of the objections, the all-volunteer forces were the result. Maybe now we are seeing the first time when there are unpopular conflicts in that system and what the results are.
I see a few options as a marketing guy who has at least some responsibility for making an environment that is favorable for sales guys to work in.
1 - The armed forces, either jointly or individually, need waaaaay better marketing in order to make what you can offer appealing to kids BEFORE you ever get there. Not a trivial task. Maybe “that guy” from the film “Thank you for smoking” is available
2 - Drop the all volunteer effort as too difficult when needed most in times of large active conflict as opposed to small conflicts or quiet deterrence. Consider the draft again, or automatic conscription. Good luck with that.
3 - Provide more realistic support and guidance for the recruiting function to help them manage their work related stresses better then SSG and JR and others I have read of are doing these days. that might be politically difficult to swallow, but not so far fetched to actually implement.
It is # 3 I was getting at above in my post above - that maybe SSG is not getting the right support managerially if he as the concerns he expressed, and even more that his best perceived outlet is to come here to express them.
While I wouldn’t want his job, I don’t necessarily object to him doing it, or it being done at all. But this does make me think maybe I should go check those guys out in the strip mall and see how they are doing for the purposes of blogging. There could be a story there, and our local paper is certainly not interested in anything besides press releases from the local police forces these days
Hmmm. Maybe that is the root of the problem if that is the sales pitch. Your prospects might buy into that in principle, but it is foolish to think that, with few exceptions, they are not aware of the risks involved in getting those skills.
What sort of sales training do you have to smoke out and address the objections? At what point do you let someone go because even if they could use the training (and I don’t doubt most you come into contact with can use the opportunity), their objections or perceptions of the risk are not realistic?
It sounds to me like SSG in the OP finds himself caught in a trap - he knows that the girl is deemed not the right material by his superiors, and he doesn’t want to let them do their job because he knows it affects his results. Maybe he is a little too caught up in the “Army of One” sort of marketing and pitch to realize that he is not working alone in the recruiting function, that he is only the sales guy with direct customer contact as we call it here?
That, and what I read ofter that, was very enlightening! Who knew?
Not looking for a debate on that as I mentioned. I am currently researching the us v. them" psychology wrt police forces being non-transparent to the public they serve though, so this is interesting to me as a related observation.
I hope because I expressed an opinion that is not 100% support and hugs and kisses, it is not automatically perceived as insulting. that would be insulting to me, and just further make my point about the isolation of the recruiting function leading to unrealistic expectations.
Why would you assume that, since you have direct customer and other public contact, that if they are not happy with you, they are not exercising their rights in many other ways, or that they are not entitled to make their feelings known to you?
As I said, we have options that would take the personal element out of getting people inducted. Is it your opinion that the recruiting function in America is so broken (one could make this case I suppose, given this is the first extended conflict where we had the system in place) that either the public should not be allowed to speak their piece to recruiters in their midst or that we should not have recruiters at all?
Maybe we are heading to GD territory. I don’t have a dog in that race right now, but I am curious what you or others think.
the military reports to a civilian government, which in turn should be doing the will of the people. If something is important to the people they need to let their elected reps know, and let if filter through the chain of command. I may work for the people in a sense, but I do not take orders from them, I take orders from the officers appointed over me.
I didn;t say he doesn’t care, quite the opposite. I meant to say that he cares too much, maybe because he has limited other potential recruits to focus on and so he is too emotinoally wrapped up in this particular one. It is quite clear how much he cares.
But I think he cares about her as a number for him, he won’t track her through the rest of her life to see how it went. I suspect part of the pitch is to be seen as a way out, a kind of wise father figure that was otherwise never there, in many cases. But I don’t think for a second once she is on her way, whether in or out, he will actually be that father figure.
That is not a military recruiting problem, it happens for colleges, sports, and anywhere else recruiting happens too. Frankly it is the basis of almost all sales. So when the sales guy is getting too wrapped up emotionally in his pitch, I just want to point that out. The military doesn’t grind to a halt if this girl doesn’t get in, or if she has to wait.
Same here - destressing is always good in situations like this. Work hard, play hard. Repeat.
My little brother had a severe hiking accident a couple of years ago. He has some rudimentary control of his arms and hands, but nothing below the shoulders.
He joined the Navy two months ago.
They didn’t draft him, of course - being a quadriplegic pretty much ensures an exemption - but he is so smart and so motivated that they couldn’t turn him down. He’s about as independent as a person in his condition can be: he can feed himself, take care of his personal needs, get around anywhere that’s wheelchair accessible, and drive a specially-adopted van. He sleeps at home every night and doesn’t do weekends, but when he’s at base he does his utmost to contribute.
Anyone can serve in the military. With enough motivation, you can always find a way to contribute.