I think I see why my job as an Army recruiter is hard. (Mild)

The BBQ Pit
1

Y’know, I don’t really know where to post this. I want to trash people who object to recruiters saying things like this . Everything she says is true. There are some people who have been in for many years and never deployed. There is an Army band. We don’t get to see what was edited out. I get pissed at people who think that this is wrong. We don’t let applicants take the drug test home. We do test the applicant before we send that person to the Military Exam Processing Station. It really is a benefit for the applicant that we do because if you fail the drug test at the recruiter’s office, you can come back and test again. If you fail at the MEPS, there are regulations as to how soon before you can come back and re-test. We don’t do this to put drug abusers in the Army. We do this because you can smoke pot before you join. All applicants are advised of the no tolerance policy before they join.
What I can’t tolerate is recruiters who do this..

SSG Schwartz

2

Heck, I’ve worked a recruiting booth. I had one guy ask in all seriousness if his psychic abilities would open opportunities. Later in the conversation he asked if a history of mental illness would disqualify him. I think I was sufficiently polite the entire time.

Just sayin’

3

Maybe he had just finished reading The Men Who Stare At Goats.

4

You know, I hate assholes who think they are cute by linking to a bunch of Youtube crap without telling us what is going on. If you have a real point here, tell us what the fucking point is, not just a few Youtube links. Like “I get pissed at people that think that “yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah” as is portrayed in this YouTube link here.”

Do you have a point? What does the rercuiter in link # 1 say? What do the people in link #2 think? What does the recruiter in link #3 do? Or did you just find some cute shots on Youtube and wanted dudes to check them out?

5

Edited, or rather deleted because it put me on the verge of a relapse into extreme rage

6

In a dialed-down DrDeth, a lot of us are reading the boards while at work, and while our employers are Ok with us keeping up with current events, they can’t have us using up bandwith on non-work-related streaming video.

Standing in the dark as I am, I will repeat whe’s been argued on these boards and elsewhere: We have a military only of people who volunteered fighting wars that were started only by a few people at the top. If we have a military where everyone might have to join, maybe we’d only have wars that everyone would have to agree are necessary.

7

If that worked, it would be impossible to simultaneously have conscription and serious war dissent.
WWI simultenously had a draft and war dissent sufficiently serious that even fascist (and this is not too strong a term for Wilson’s measures) suppression failed to eliminate it.
Ergo, it doesn’t work.
QED.

8

FYI, while THE Army band doesn’t get deployed, the rest of them (last count I recall was 28, which is not a current count but is out of date) can and do get deployed.

In the first Iraq conflict, eight bands were sent over. I know because I was a musician in the US Army (O2H), and while my band did not get deployed, friends of mine were over there.

9

So-what are you (OP) saying? That recruiters don’t mislead young kids (enough already about men and women–these are 17, 18 year olds)? That promises are made that are not kept? What?

I have no problem with the way the recruiting office handles the drug testing. Am I supposed to? I have a real problem with the “nice lady recruiter” who tells a kid to lie about his past injuries-injuries that could effect his ability to handle a weapon or equipment. And the band thing–how lame is that? As if he’s going to be paid to play the drums. Honestly. This is why younger people are targeted–this shit works on them. How many Army drummers are desperately needed? She’s lying to this kid, through and through.

I thought the military had a way for those who join to get their GED?
I am not anti-military, per se, and I think that for SOME it is a way to get a college education and learn some life skills that perhaps they were not exposed to growing up. Indeed, the Marines saved my neighbor, despite the fact he was sent to Vietnam, because his boyhood was so horrid that the structure and discipline provided him security and a productive way to approach life. (not all recruits come from “bad” backgrounds-I realize that. I’m just sayin’). Why not say that to these kids-instead of telling them to lie and promising them all manner of stuff? I get that the sales tactic works–it’s just sleazy as hell. Be all that you can be. :rolleyes:

10

Not having the inclination to click on YouTube links, my comments are probably not particularly germane to the OP.

My mother graduated in 1939; the guys in her class had a pretty good idea about their future. One especially gifted musician got into a US Navy band–better than slogging through the trenches (guess they were thinking back to The Last War). It was the band stationed on the Battleship Arizona. (He’s still there. Or what’s left of him, after all these years.)

Some of the guys of my own generation didn’t really get into drug abuse until after they joined up. (Beautiful Southeast Asia!)

Personally, I wish you well. Several of my relatives had/are having military careers. But there are several reasons why recruiting is a tough sell nowadays. (Iraq being number one.)

11

Take comfort that if a kid really wants to be an army drummer, they have to pass a musical exam BEFORE they can sign up. If the kid fails the exam, he doesn’t have to sign up, its a done deal. If he passes it it’ll be in his contract, so yeah, he’ll be a drummer.

I don’t know what the army does about GEDs now. When i started recruiting no GEDs were allowed in. By the time i left, after Bush had fucked us by invading iraq, they began letting GEDs in again. Not to hard to guess why, huh?

Oh, and I think the new slogan is “Army Strong”. (you’d think I’d know since i’m still on active duty, but I’ve scrubbed anything recruiting related from my mind.)

12

Some questions for the OP about Video 1:

(a) While it’s true that some people never get deployed, what percentage are we talking about during the last 4 years of our war in Iran? If someone joined the army in the past few years, what are their realistic chances of not being deployed? Because, to me, that recruiter made it sound like the chances of not being deployed, and particularly not being deployed to Iraq, were very good. Is that the case?

(b) Do you honestly think, when the candidate expressed a desire to “make an album and then go platinum,” that he was talking about the sort of music they play in the Army Band? Do you think that the presence of an Army Band would really help advance this guy’s musical aspirations? Sure, there was stuff left out; it would have been good to see her response to his question about a Hip Hip band.

© What about, when he talks about his previous sprained wrist, and she seems to be encouraging him not to mention it “Because then the doctor gets stupid, and then he wants medical documents.” Yeah, those stupid doctors; what do they know about evaluating your health?
I guess my point here is that we should ask our military recruiters to live up to a slightly higher standard than “Carefully skirt around the truth without telling any actual lies.” They are recruiting for a job where, as we’ve seen all too clearly over the past few years, one consequence of signing up can be death in Iraq or Afghanistan. And they are recruiting for a job where, once signed up, the recruits are in for a matter of years, and can’t just turn around and decide to quit.

While the recruiter’s response in part (a) might have been reasonable 10 years ago, in our current situation i think they should be more upfront about exactly what is the likelihood of deployment.

Part (b) is not a big deal, but i really doubt that the army has very much to offer that particular kid in his music career. Not that this is a bad thing–after all, the army is not music school–but recruiters should be clear to potential recruits about exactly what opportunities are available and realistic if they join up.

And while the first two cases might be mitigated by stuff that we didn’t see in the video, i know of no possible extra, unviewed footage that might mitigate part ©. I can think of no extra context that makes it acceptable for a recruiter to tell a recruit not to mention an aspect of his medical history because the doctor will then get stupid and require documentation.

YMMV.

13

I think I’m thinking of college degrees, not HS ones. :smack: (did the military insist on HS diplomas in WW2? Somehow I doubt it. Then again, there were probably more HS graduates proportionately then than now…)

Nice to know about the drum test. But the whole premise is wrong–I agree with mhendo–recruits need to know the odds that they will get deployed to Iraq. Seriously, you cannot recruit under false premises and then express shock and horror when those recruits commit atrocities. That seems disingenuous to me. Is the military THAT naive? Be all that you can be; Army strong–whatever. Same idea, different era. :slight_smile:

14

In my experience, it’s mostly been argued by the hopelessly naive crowd, or by older hippies with ellided memories. Were you at Woodstock? :wink:

15

Actually, I’m pretty sure the new motto is “So you missed the small print in the End User License Agreement for *America’s Army * too, huh?”

16

Well, it could be argued that if you agree to enlist in the army you should already be prepared for the idea that you may be deployed. If you’re in the band though, the chances are lower than that of someone thats in the signal corps or an engineer. (I left out combat arms, because lets face it, you’re getting deployed if you’re in a combat MOS)

17

Not if the kid wants to enlist in the regular Army. In addition to passing the audition prior to enlisting, the wanna-be drummer must also attend and pass the School of Music. While it’s certainly no Berklee, it’s also not a given that everyone will pass.

One of my roommates flunked out at the mid-term audition, and off to cook’s school she went. The guys were usually sent to infantry school.

18

Very deceptive, despite having elements of truth. Shame on her.

19

Did they give them a choice to pick up another MOS? If you don’t pass your AIT, they usually just cashier you out. I don’t know about the Music school though. Its a specialized MOS and the band guys get a few perks so I can imagine that its not a cake walk to pass. I find it hard to believe that failure automatically puts you in the infantry. Its a sure-thing washout to put someone in infantry school who doesn’t want to be there.

20

I don’t get it. Nothing that she said is untrue. Military doctors do make much ado about minor issues. You don’t always get sent to Iraq. If you come into money, you can get out (and quite easily at that).

What the hell do you want them to say? “If you join you will get shot at and you will likely be severely injured or die”? That’s even more of a lie than the things that you people complain about.

Frankly, I’m at a loss. You always accuse recruiters of lying, so when you see something that has zero lies in it you call it unethical. Frankly, I think you people are bizarre.