I could link to two or three local news stories to back this thread up, but I am so exhausted from having to answer questions from the local community about it that I don’t have the energy. I am pitting Army recruiters that are telling applicants to lie on their applications. As you may know, I am an active duty Air force recruiter. The actions of those idiotic, lazy a-holes are causing me no end of trouble. I have to work at least as hard as you to find people to join, and I don’t tell them to lie about their qualifications, medical, moral, or otherwise. Now, I have to overcome the objections to the military that YOU cause. I pit you!
The guys who are getting pissed off the most about it are the drill sergeants, since they’re the ones who have to catch these cases and either unscrew these individuals up or kick them out of the military, neither of which is terribly fun, or fair to anyone.
Every now and then, when the topic of how the Army’s doing under the stresses of its assorted overseas deployments, somebody chirps up, “but the Army is meeting its recruiting goals!” Yes, numerically. But to do so, they’ve raised the age limit by several years, lowered requirements, accepted felons, skinheads, and gangbangers that they wouldn’t have let in just a few years ago, and they’ve still cheated to get people in.
I don’t blame the recruiters; they’re caught between a rock and a hard place. It’s not like they can tell their boss to take this job and shove it, and they’re under some serious pressure to meet their quotas.
But I do blame the officers who aren’t speaking up to say that the pressure on the recruiters is unreasonable, and that those who are creating that pressure bear the ultimate responsibility for the abuses. And I blame the President for biting off a bit more war than our military can chew - and then escalating.
Well, to be honest, the recruiting pool for prospective airmen is very different than that of potential soldiers. The Air Force, even through the bad retention times (like now!) never really seemed desperate.
The Air Force isn’t desperate, but the bad press makes it really hard to explain to parents, “No sir. I won’t tell little Johnny to lie, nor will I lie to him. I am in the Air Force, not the Army like tose guys on TV…No sir, we are NOT all alike…Oh really? I can’t comment on my feelings about the war…Okay, well thanks for your time. By the way, sir it isn’t physically possible for me to perform that anatomical function on myslef. Have a great day call back if you or Johnny change your mind!” Seriously, I have this exact conversation two to three times per day. Makes me sick.
Hijack (my own thread): Is there a web site that has a cheat sheet for coding? My google fu sucks today, apparently .
I agree with you about the unfairness to the drill sergeants, but if someone deliberately falsifies his application because he knows a true statement would disallow enlisting I think kicking them out is eminently fair. Hell, I’d give 'em the equivalent of basic training in the stockade first.
My BIL was a recruiter with the Army in PA. He would never lie to get someone in. But other’s would around him. His biggest problem was health and education issues. People were obese and had not graduated from High School. He got the boot in the form of an xfer to an Army base in Nebraska. He never regretted standing firm. I was pretty impressed given the lack of integrity of his chain of command.
If you’re asking about the vB code that’s used for bolding, quotes, links, etc. here at the Dope, go here. There are a few things (e.g. embedding images) that aren’t enabled, but other than that, it’s a good guide.
Disreputable recruiters? Dishonest or manipulative practices? I’m shocked, shocked that anything like that would be going on! This must be a recent phenomena! :rolleyes:
I went to the recruiters right before I turned 18 in 1983. My standardized test scores were so high that I could have gone into any MOS. The Navy told me that I would be perfect working on sub reactors. No matter which way I tried to push the conversation ( I really wanted computer work) they always came back to subs. I wouldn’t have minded the reactor but I didn’t like the idea of being submerged for months at a time. I walked away.
Air Force told me that I would not be allowed in a plane because of I was nearsighted (20/20 corrected). They wanted me as an avionics repairman. I tried steering the conversation again to computers, they steered me away. I walked.
I told the Army recruiter I wanted computers. He said, “I’ve got the perfect MOS! 15E, Pershing Missile Crewmember! You work with nuclear missiles programming the flight computers.” Perfect!
He didn’t tell me that I was really going to be a glorified guard who occasionally got to do maintenance on the missile (swap out stages or warheads) or monitor the generator. The “programming” was done by someone else who provided us with a targeting tape.
He also “neglected” to tell me that, at the time I enlisted, that 15E had a recruiting bonus. Anyone signing up for that MOS during that time period was entitled to $5000. Because he didn’t tell me I didn’t get it. I found out I was eligible about 9 months after I enlisted but the IG said there was nothing I could do because too much time had elapsed. I found out later that the recruiter was forging the bonus paper, having it allocated to his recruiting office and then pocketing the money. He got transferred to Leavenworth. Asshole.
Recruiters will take advantage of young men and women to fill their numbers. They are sales people who will do and say anything to close the deal and meet their quota. I think they are shown scenes from Glengarry Glen Ross to pump them up and make them complete the deal. Real estate, used cars, widgets or the military: it’s all about getting some schmuck to sign on the dotted line. You sold a lemon, a toxic pit or enlisted a pedophilic, drug abuser with a room temperature IQ; it doesn’t matter. All that’s important is that you met your quota.
erie774, I can’t speak for other branches recruiters, but the Air Force doesn’t tolerate that kind of thing. AF recruiters don’t take advantage of young men and women, unless you consider giving them decent pay, free housing, food, medical/dental coverage, and TONS of money for college “taking advantage.” I am sorry that your experiences with recruiting were bad, but don’t label ALL recruiters with dishonesty because of one anecdote. According to your post, the Army took care of the Soldier that decided money was more important to him than his job.
Hehe. USN, 83-89 here. Same “Nuke Tech” pitch given to me, didnt bite.
Recruiters’ annual evaluations (which are used in promotion boards and such) are heavily weighted towards meeting recruitment goals. (Then there’s the bonus thing for signing up folks into “critical” MOS’s…)
There are many things that might get “glossed” over in an enlistment application. Arrest record, drug use statement, and so on.
These stories are probably as old as the provisions for voluntary enlistment exist.
Me too. I got calls for months, until I started hanging up on the fuckers. I asked one guy how being cooped up in the belly of a ship, or worse, a submarine, tending a controlled nuclear explosion, is high adventure.
My dad is a WW2 Navy vet, and he told me from an early age, “Best to avoid.”
Oh, hell. I was screwed over and I know it now. Lots of other people I served with were sold a bill of goods. Remember that scene in Private Benjamin where the recruiter is telling Goldie Hawn about condos and yachts? I knew quite a few guys who were told stories about the best equipped and maintained military in the world and wound up living in WWII Luftwaffe barracks (yup, that’s what we got while the AWACs crews had maid service. No joke). I had a friend who went in the Navy and was given the whole, “Join the Navy and see the world,” speech. He saw Chicago and New Jersey.
I know there were lots of bennies and I used them. College fund, classes through University of Maryland, free medical (nothing like a hernia repair in Weisbaden!), fantastic exchange rate (hey, it was the 80’s in Germany where you could get almost 4 DM = $1), [del]great[/del] [del]good[/del] [del]decent[/del] free food. I did enjoy most of the time I was in, made some great friends, saw a ton of Europe, learned a lot and really matured.
Not all recruiters are slime. I’m sure most of them are fantastic people who are dedicated and committed service members. Unfortunately, we will only hear about the shitheels who give the rest a bad rep, the same way you hear more about the crooked cops than the decent ones who do the right thing every day. If the recruiters have to sugarcoat it a little to get some kid to sign, I don’t blame him. If he coaches an eager recruit on how the ASVAB works to give the kid a better chance, that’s admirable because he is looking out for the kids’ best interests. It’s the asshats that screw these naïve teens over or fudge with the system that should be stationed in the worst shit hole duty stations.
