Ha. No, I’m serious - am I missing something? I would have thought that maybe I was just doing it wrong if I only had my own invoices as a reference, but since I quit kidding myself about the feasibility of freelancing and got into my current gig I am up to my ears in other people’s invoices. Design invoices don’t really stand apart from any other trade’s invoices, in that they are generally billing for time and/or a specific scope of work that’s been quoted on.
I don’t ever recall seeing a line item that wasn’t straightforward. I have met one or two people who describe themselves as (general) “designers” that indulge in jargonistic bafflegab, but do you ever see these people actually working?
Heh - yeah, I think you are. Look at acsenray’s post I was responding to. He specifically was joking about how bills from plumbers seem to have no basis in reality, why should [designers] do it any differently? I was simply running with the (admittedly thin) joke.
My thoughts as well. As a designer, and having done quite a bit of logos, I’m a little surprised that as an actual designer himself that Euty would try to solicit logo design for free. I do like Euty and that is the reason I have not responded until now. I’m a graphic designer and could seriously use some web page help, but that it wasn’t even offered was very off-putting.
This is not so much of a rant as a frustration for the general feeling of creative=why not free. It takes a lot of work to produce a ‘camera ready’ logo. Something Euty should know if he already knows what he wants. My invoices always spell out in plain terms what is being billed for.
No self respecting creative drinks rum while working on a professional projects and I resent the implication. It’s always whiskey - preferably neat. And yeah… iTunes full blast. What’s not clear about that?
My problem is the tenor of the first few responses. I just don’t understand why people think that a snarky reply is an appropriate response to someone asking for help. As Munch mentioned, it did seem to contain a lot of passive aggressive hostilty, and I can’t imagine that such feelings are useful on the job.
I do understand your frustration, though. It is less common, but still significant in what could be called my profession: fixing people’s computers. Quite a few people seem to think I should be able to just fix any problems they have for absolutely nothing. I’ve heard it lamented on this board by much more professional people than me.
Maybe the fact that this is offset by people who will over pay me for, say, fixing their screen resolution that keeps me from getting as bitter.
Ahem… to carry on the theme of touchy designers, I’d just like to say that as a branding designer I regard myself as an educated Consultant, who sits at the big table with architects, lawyers, accountants and management consultants. I’m not a skilled labourer.
This is not directly related, but I think it might be a helpful lens with which the uninitiated can view the situation.
Usually, a designer worth their salt went to school to learn how to do what they do well. For instance, I went to a 4-year art school from which I got a BFA in graphic design. It’s a decent school, but a far cry from the "Pasadena Art Center"s and "Rhode Island School of Design"s of the world. For the 2010-2011 school year, the total cost of attending my art school is between $35-40k per year depending on one’s living circumstances.
There’s definitely been some “sensitive” replies in the thread* (from creative types — shocking!)*; but there is a possibility that some of those responses to do work without pay came from people who have incurred a weighty chunk of debt to learn a skill that some people (unintentionally) devalue.
I don’t always explain myself well in my initial posts what with the inside of my head being as weird as it is and Stockhausen’s “Mittwochgruss aus Licht” distracting my concentration. Suffice it to say that I did not do well here.
I was not looking for someone to create a logo for me. That I will do myself. What I was looking for was someone, maybe not even someone professional, but someone with more practical artistic skills than mine to draw something for me to use in a logo. In effect, I wanted someone to “draw me a piccher.” That’s all.
I am not against the idea of bartering services for this, had someone asked, but since someone has already stepped up to the plate and offered to do it, that point is probably moot.
Bloody Nora! It’s a miracle anyone in the US manages to get an education - tuition fees for full time courses in the UK are capped at just over £3000 p.a. (c.$5000) - and even those are fairly new. Back in my day (creaks forward on rocking chair), tuition was free and the Government even paid you a grant for living expenses if your parents earned below a certain threshold.
Don’t worry about, I’m afraid you’ve been caught in the crossfire of weary designers who are routinely taken advantage of by friends and family. It’s the old ‘would you mind knocking me up a business card/wedding invitation/birthday card/website/brochure/poster/leaflet/logo - I can draw you a picture of just what I want, it won’t take you long’.
No doubt doctors and lawyers get caught in this trap too (‘could you just look at my elbow?’) The difference is that they can give five minutes of advice. When we do a favour, it can involve several days (free) work!
It’s hard to say no to people close to you, so we get a bit miffed when commercial enterprises pull the same trick.
Oh I understood perfectly. As I mentioned upthread, you’re a decent sort and I like you so I wasn’t offended but given your explanation above I’m still a little confused. You do website design for profit, would you be OK if I ask you to design me a website for free… well, not really design it - I’ve drawn out what I want all the pages to look like, I just need someone to “do the HTML’in”. That’s all?
I will also apologize for my snarkiness up-thread. I am not actually a graphic designer, but an artist nonetheless who, yes like many people have indicated about us creative types, frequently asked for our services. And I doubt I will ever pay off my Master’s degree debt…
Regardless, I offer a little levity to the thread with this ditty about someone who asked a graphic designer for help with a Lost Cat sign.Just for fun…
One of my closest friends is an artist (painter), and you’d be surprised how many friends. acquaintances even, who expect her to give them a painting. She’s attempting to earn a living with her art, at least to move in that direction. She now has a recent catalogue of her work from an art exhibition/sale where a number of her works were sold (prices are indicated) , so she has taken to showing that to people who want a painting, and asking them what they’d like to barter.
So I understand that artists have to make a point that their work is work, and that it should not be expected for free. Pay or barter some service of your own.
