Hi everyone. I have a 2014 MINI Countryman ‘S’ with a 6-speed Getrag manual transmission. Ever since I’ve owned it (since new), I occasionally will get a grind going between 1st and 2nd. The clutch is fully depressed, by the way.
Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn’t. If I let the RPMs go down to idle before shifting, it doesn’t do it at all. It usually happens when shifting around 2.5-3.5k.
The dealership says they can’t get it to do it (of course) and I’ve had it there twice for this issue.
I’ve managed to capture it in audio as best I can. I was hoping some of our resident mechanics can tell me what they think it is. I’ve heard from some of the MINI facebook groups, they say it sounds like either the “throwout bearing” or the “synchronizers”. I have no idea, as I just know how to drive it.
Anyway, here are the audio links (1st is a normal shift, 2 and 3 are grind):
The throwout bearing would make noise pretty much any time the clutch was depressed, although sometimes it’s limited to certain RPMs.
That it does it only at higher RPMs indicates it’s a synchro issue… but exactly what, it’s hard to say. I’m not familar enough with the exact mechanicals of that tranny to say with precision what’s causing it.
You can take the load off the synchros by slacking off the throttle during the shift (good practice for tranny and clutch longevity, anyway). Does it only happen when you’re accelerating hard and not backing off the gas as much? If you try to shift gently and match revs, does it happen?
Matching revs: learn to notice about what rev difference the gears have at shifting speeds. If you’re cruising at 3000 rpm in first and shift into 2nd while maintaining the same speed, what are the new revs? Probably about 2100-2200? You should try to let the engine drop to that rpm before pulling the stick from neutral into 2nd, and ditto for all the gears going up. If you try to force the stick across while the revs are still close to the prior gear’s level, you are forcing the (brass or bronze) synchro gears to engage much harder, wear faster and make noise doing it.
I back completely off the throttle when shifting. I only get back on it after I’ve got it already in the next gear.
Also, on the matching revs, I’m pretty good about that. As I said, sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn’t. All around the same revs.
One last thing - this is my 4th MINI and I’ve never had this issue with the others, so I don’t think it has anything to do with my driving style. I’m actually quite easy on my cars.
I’m not really hearing anything in the audio files. Maybe you can feel it more than hear it?
One thing sort of along the lines of AB’s last paragraph is that for some reason a lot of newer stick shift equipped cars do this thing where the RPM’s hang when you have the clutch in. I assume it has something to do with emissions. It makes doing well-timed upshifts difficult and can make especially the 1st-2nd shift a little rough. Could that be what it’s doing? If so, as far as I can tell the only real solutions are using a little bit more of the friction zone for the 1-2 shift or just living with the rough shift. That could also explain why the dealership couldn’t replicate the problem since their mechanics who drive them all the time are probably just used to having to use a little more clutch.
If the dealership can’t find anything wrong and doesn’t seem to think it’s unusual, GJ might have it right and it’s a throttle-control issue interfering with rev changes.
Do the revs drop when you clutch in and lift off the gas?
I agree that it sounds like a synchro issue and I know less about those trannys than the **Barbarian **does. But I wanted to expand on his rev-mathcing comments (which I agree with, btw). This is not a comment on your driving style, just something to try to see if they affect your results.
Another technique you can try is pausing in the neutral gate. More of a click-click into second than a quick jab from 1 to 2.
Also, if you are familiar w/ the double-clutch technique, that will usually help take some of the load* off the synchros during the shifts.
maybe not the correct term, but that’s the feel of it.
My Volvo turbo wagon did the same thing between 1 and 2 under spirited acceleration. My VW Jetta GLX does it too under the same conditions.
Some cars/transmissions, just don’t want to be rushed too hard from gear to gear. No matter how good you are with the clutch and the throttle pedals, a fraction of a second too quick with the gear change and you get that hair raising grind.
I’m on my phone but I can’t hear anything out of the ordinary.
Here is what you should do:
Call the dealership, ask for the service manager and nicely explain the issue and that the car came back no fault found. Ask him to go on a test drive with you. Demonstrate both a good shift and the grind.
GreasyJack, yes, you can definitely feel it more than hear it, but I’m so tuned to my car, I can hear it quite clearly myself. Just the matter of getting it recorded correctly.
Amateur Barbarian, I really am easy on them, I swear! Had to get rid of the 1st (2005) one due to separation. Got rid of the 2nd (2009) one because I had “settled” for a non-‘S’ and the 3rd (2012) one was totaled due to no fault of mine.
Shunpiker, I can try that, but I don’t think I should have to deal with double clutching on a car with just over 10k miles on it. It’s still under warranty. The next step after this is to get MINIUSA involved.
Rick, I’ve dealt with the service manager every time and he’s the one who told me to get audio of it. He’s also the one I told to let it cool down completely before trying it and he called me back a little over an hour later to say they needed their loaner back. :rolleyes:
Call the Mini consumer affairs phone number and explain what you have told me.
Tell them it appears that the dealer is in over their head and ask to meet with a factory representative.
If it is worse cold drop the car off the night before and come back in the AM to meet with the rep.
