Kindergarten here is free and always has been–I can’t quite understand how the public school system can charge for kindergarten. It hasn’t been optional here for quite a while. Preschool, however, they charge for, and is optional.
However, I understand what you’re talking about–I had a similar experience when our district decided to make the change from 1/2 day kindergarten to full day. My first two had done the 1/2 day kindergarten, with the previous year spent in 3-half-days-a-week preschool. I was upset that parents hadn’t been forewarned that they were going to that option (but that’s another whole story) I was concerned that my youngest didn’t need the stress of a full day kindergarten program. We were offered the (crappy) option of pulling our kids out at noon, but I figured that would make my daughter that weird kid who goes home at lunchtime.
So I said my piece at a PTA meeting with the superintendent, and then I bit the bullet and sent her to full-day kindergarten. To my surprise, none of the issues that I had been concerned about arose. She loved kindergarten, she loved her teacher, there were no horrible draconian rules (they had nap time, which she had abandoned at 2, but she was allowed to play quietly while the others napped). There was lots of time for fun and play, and lots of opportunities for group learning and group play that I couldn’t do at home. To give our district credit, they didn’t operate full day kindergarten like it was the Academic Olympics–the kids learned, and learned a lot, but it was not at all a stressful environment. A big component of that is that our district is really top-notch and we have excellent teachers who are compensated for their efforts and respected.
I DID miss the time that I got to spend with her at home, but we found creative ways to make up for that. I also volunteered a lot at her school–which I think has always been a large factor in my kids’ school performance.
So I guess what I’m saying is that chances are good that your daughter will still be able to be a sillyheart and have lots of time for swinging and playing…and she’ll be ready when those tests come around in 3rd grade.
I moved to a small town right before my first son was born and was shocked that it had had full day kindergarten for 30 years already (this was 20 yrs ago). I was not a big fan until my kid went but once he did it was fine but it wasn’t a high stress learning environment either. He loved being with other kids all day.
As far as the other stuff in your school district goes . . . stupid and crazy. It seems like there might be a few parents who can’t afford the extra cost so your daughter wouldn’t be the only one not going every day if you make that choice. Don’t let them bully you into doing something you don’t think is right for your child.
Look and see if she even has to go to kindergarten. In our school district it is not even a requirement for 1st grade.
Watch out, once they get them all going all day in kindergarten they’ll start the push for 4 yr old kindergarten because you know that will make them do so much better in regular kindergarten. We might as well drop the kids off at the school on the way home from the hospital after they’re born.
I can tell you that ISTEP (the Indiana test) is quite easy. If you learn the math and the english, you’re fine. Heck, I never studied at all my entire school career, and I did fine. If you want your daughter to play with the other kids in kindergarten more, then fine, if not don’t worry about it.
If you were actually serious about having your daughter learn, you’d have signed her up in a fairly academically oriented preschool at 3 years old.
The reason they want all-day kindergarten is because children learn better and faster in their younger years. Why do you think they start the special ed kids at 3? It’s not just a matter of more instruction time; they’re at the prime age to start learning, and by starting them at that age, they can get those kids a lot further along than they could if they started them at 5 with the same instruction. The same goes for regular ed kids, only more so, because they’re normal.
And, your daughter will get to be a kid in all-day kindergarten, so don’t sweat that. The teaching at that age is pretty play-centric- lots of songs, dances, etc… that kids actually enjoy. Plus, they get recess and to play with the other kids.
I think you’re overreacting a little- it certainly won’t hurt your daughter, and might even help her in the long run. Pony up the $400 and quit whining.
In Soviet Cannukistan, we start the kids off in Junior Kindergarten, at the age of four. Half days, 5 days a week. So chill.
Your kid is bright, you say? Then actually, kindergarten will be good for her. She’ll appreciate the stimulation, the classroom environment, and being a “big kid who goes to school”. It ain’t a bad thing. Plus, regular kindergarten curriculum involves a LOT of playtime, as well as all the building blocks to math, reading and writing. For a smart kid, it’s a great thing. Chances are that she’s gonna love it.
I thought that it was becoming well known that free play is best for children. They will actually become better learners if you keep them away from formal schooling so early in life. bbc story
I don’t see the problem with all day Kindergarten. Most kids have gone to preschool, which is where they now learn their colors etc (and rudimentary how to sit still and listen to the teacher). Plus, even a few months makes a huge difference at this age–what Johnnie isn’t ready for a 4, he may be ready for at 4.3 etc.
I have never heard of an all day program that allows a child to only go 2.5 days a week. That .5 day must confuse the hell out of everyone, plus makes lesson planning difficult for teachers.
I was thrilled when we got all day K here–finally the teachers wouldn’t have to cram everything in in less than 3 hours. Finally, the kids got to go out and PLAY at recess. Finally, they could work on longer term projects and get more in depth exposure to pre-reading and reading skills and math fundamentals. The K here does a whole unit on spectrochromotography(!)–and these kids eat it up. They also explore penguins in depth and finish that unit with a field trip to the Shedd Aquarium to see the penguins–a heady experience for Kindergartners.
It’s not like K is where the kids are tied to chairs and force fed worksheets (that comes later). My experience with K was never “buckling down” OR worrying about Harvard (of course there are some parents who do that–they’ve been around since you were expecting. You know who they are and how to avoid them, don’t you?).
I see you are upset and I’d like to know why. You say you want her to play with her friends–aren’t most of her friends her age and won’t they be in school? Of course you’re the final arbiter of what is best for your child, but have you truly thought this through? If so, I’ll shut up.
Sorry if this wasn’t clear. She would go Tuesday, Thursday, and every other Friday. I shorthanded that as 2.5 days a week.
It’s not so much the all-day kindergarten itself as it is the reasons given for why I should send my daughter, and the implications that I don’t care about her “academic career” if I don’t. As has been mentioned, kids are now learning in kindergarten what I learned in first grade. I am told I must send her to all day kindergarten so she doesn’t fall behind in first grade. Of course then she must go to preschool so she’ll be ready for kindergarten. Where does it end- shoving flash cards up the birth canal? As I said, I have resigned myself that all-day kindergarten is the best thing for her. What pissed me off is the system that made it necessary- specifically the standardized testing in third grade that apparently all-day kindergarten will help her pass. I think it’s sad that, at five, they are already ramping these kids up for this ridiculous testing so they can get their federal money. But, a lot of people in this thread have assured me that kindergarten is not a high-pressure situation, and that she will have plenty of play time, which has made me feel better.
Speaking as someone who went from grade 1 to kindergarten, and over the years made many forward, backward and lateral moves in the education system, I suggest that you just do what you think is best for your child. Don’t let yourself be pressured into something of which you are not comfortable.
My 5 year old daughter is in Kindergarten and it isn’t full time automatically here either. However, they offer and extended day program that we need three days a week because my wife and I both work full-time and have to juggle schedules. That is just what it takes to survive these days in an expensive area. She was in an excellent day care from 8 weeks old until this year that she loved and didn’t push her yet she learned a whole lot.
She is extremely bright by all accounts but she has some attention problems. It costs a little to send her to the extended day option but it is mainly free-form educational play. I don’t feel bad about it at all and she loves the extended day part. We don’t push her at all but she loves science and books in general so we cater to that. I don’t give a rat’s ass about prepping her for Harvard.
I literally went to one of the worst school districts in the country and still got a full scholarship at a great undergraduate university and an Ivy League graduate school. We care much more about her happiness. She is almost certainly gifted and can figure out her own options late in high school.
Our job as parents is just to make sure she stays on an even track in every way. I know for a fact that I couldn’t do as good a job teaching her and keeping her stimulated as they do especially with all of her friends and resources there. We have her all night and in the morning and weekends where we just read books that she picked out in the library about dinosaurs and other reptiles usually.
It seems to work out fine. Some people make snide comments about someone else raising your kids but that is just the way life works unless your are Amish.
As someone whose kid went to day care, and kindergarten (“all day”, which was 9am - 2:30), I found I was initially uncomfortable with having my kid gone all day, until I realized that this is how he can be with other kids, which is the best thing for him all the way around. I want my boy around kids his age in a safe environment. He loves it, and I think its good for him, and when he was that age he had tons of opportunity to play. Yes, they did scholastics, but it was a pretty small chunk of the day, because they realize that most five year olds have the attention span of a moth. They do academics in the morning, and by lunch its all free play or games. Which isn’t to say its a waste of time once teaching is done, far from it – socialization (via playtime) is important for kids.
In any case, I’ll go with the crowd here: don’t feel pressured, and do what you’re comfortable with. Go to the kindergarten a couple of times, once to see them teaching, another time at lunch or in the afternoon to see play time. Do what you think is best. Pull your child out if that’s what you think that’s right. You know what’s best – its your kid!
It’s not so much the all-day kindergarten itself as it is the reasons given for why I should send my daughter, and the implications that I don’t care about her “academic career” if I don’t. As has been mentioned, kids are now learning in kindergarten what I learned in first grade. I am told I must send her to all day kindergarten so she doesn’t fall behind in first grade. Of course then she must go to preschool so she’ll be ready for kindergarten. Where does it end- shoving flash cards up the birth canal?
[QUOTE]
And now there are products designed to “stimulate” the baby in the womb–I call horseshit and snake oil sales on stuff like that. A good preschool will emphasize social skills(sharing, taking turns, “magic words”) and PLAY–not academics. A good preschool puts kids in with their peers and provides opportunities for group work as well as individual creativity and expression–ie, it’s ok to sit out the sing along or suck your thumb or whatever. It’s ok to go to preschool dressed in a tutu and legwarmers with a camoflage top–and be a boy. That kind of stuff.
A good kindergarten will do much the same–no flash cards allowed. I see no problem with kids having times of structured activities and time for free play/expression. There are kids who go to K w/o preschool–and most of them do fine (I wouldn’t do that just because I think kids like being with their peers at agge 3 and 4. They like the stimulation from other kids. If she’s not in daycare or has no close in age sibs, she probably needs that).
Most districts around here have some type of “academic” screening for 3 or 4 year olds–to see that they’re on track with normal development, NOT to see if they are baby Einsteins. If your kid checks out–no worries, she’ll be fine. You can also check with your pediatrician to ensure she’s hitting her milestones.
I agree with you that this crazy push for ever more achieving kids etc is wrong and will probably backfire on society if it hasn’t already in some way we aren’t aware of now. I hated talking to Those Parents–the ones who compare natural abilities and brag on their kids, as if they were the first people to procreate and take pride in their offspring. These people will make your life miserable, if you let them.
(true story: a friend of a friend had a baby. Then I had my first child. We both went to friend’s wedding. Her boy was 4 months older than my daughter. This woman had heard that Daughter had 2 teeth at 6 months. She actually pulled down Daughter’s lip to see them for herself. She truly felt inadequate because her kid didn’t have teeth yet. TEETH. ye, gods. I bet he has teeth now–Daughter is 18 years old!)
School is what you make it for her, at least the first few years. If she makes friends and feels the teacher likes her and seems to enjoy her learning (even if her learning was that it’s not a good idea to glue Joey’s hand to the table today), chances are she’ll be comfortable and do well in school. If she struggles, her course may not be as smooth. May I suggest meeting the K teachers this year, before school gets out (if you can) and taking her over to the school over the summer to play on the playground to accustom her to the place?
I had a son (#1 for those who are following along at home) who refused to turn 5 (Bday in Jan.) He wanted no part of being 5 years of age; no interest or desire to go to Kindergarten. He refused a party and gifts. I was at my wit’s end (not a far trip) and didn’t know how to handle this. My angst was not helped by the preschool director who told me, “in my 30 years of early childhood education, I’ve never come across this. You have a problem on your hands.” Gee, thanks.
But–I went to my daughter’s school one day (she is older) and ran into her old Kindergarten teacher. I explained my dilemma. She told me to bring #1 to school real casually so that they could meet. I did so in late winter. He brought his dinosaurs (he carried them around a lot) and she made much of them. She said she hoped she’d see him sometime, showed him her dinos and left it at that.
He got over his not wanting to be 5 by that fall, and was happy to go to K. I bring up this story solely to show you that a good working relationship between you and the teacher(s) who will have your child will help immeasurably. She didn’t try to schmooze #1 son or talk him into liking K. She met him where he was: in fierce dino lust and anxious about moving onto a big kid school.
I hope your child has the same experience. It can be a very positive thing, but like all things parent-wise, it bears monitoring and benefits from flexibility.
Very weird–it wouldn’t let me post in the last post I did. Here is that post…
On the off chance this isn’t working (again), I’m copying and pasting it here.
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley]
It’s not so much the all-day kindergarten itself as it is the reasons given for why I should send my daughter, and the implications that I don’t care about her “academic career” if I don’t. As has been mentioned, kids are now learning in kindergarten what I learned in first grade. I am told I must send her to all day kindergarten so she doesn’t fall behind in first grade. Of course then she must go to preschool so she’ll be ready for kindergarten. Where does it end- shoving flash cards up the birth canal?
[QUOTE]
And now there are products designed to “stimulate” the baby in the womb–I call horseshit and snake oil sales on stuff like that. A good preschool will emphasize social skills(sharing, taking turns, “magic words”) and PLAY–not academics. A good preschool puts kids in with their peers and provides opportunities for group work as well as individual creativity and expression–ie, it’s ok to sit out the sing along or suck your thumb or whatever. It’s ok to go to preschool dressed in a tutu and legwarmers with a camoflage top–and be a boy. That kind of stuff.
A good kindergarten will do much the same–no flash cards allowed. I see no problem with kids having times of structured activities and time for free play/expression. There are kids who go to K w/o preschool–and most of them do fine (I wouldn’t do that just because I think kids like being with their peers at agge 3 and 4. They like the stimulation from other kids. If she’s not in daycare or has no close in age sibs, she probably needs that).
Most districts around here have some type of “academic” screening for 3 or 4 year olds–to see that they’re on track with normal development, NOT to see if they are baby Einsteins. If your kid checks out–no worries, she’ll be fine. You can also check with your pediatrician to ensure she’s hitting her milestones.
I agree with you that this crazy push for ever more achieving kids etc is wrong and will probably backfire on society if it hasn’t already in some way we aren’t aware of now. I hated talking to Those Parents–the ones who compare natural abilities and brag on their kids, as if they were the first people to procreate and take pride in their offspring. These people will make your life miserable, if you let them.
(true story: a friend of a friend had a baby. Then I had my first child. We both went to friend’s wedding. Her boy was 4 months older than my daughter. This woman had heard that Daughter had 2 teeth at 6 months. She actually pulled down Daughter’s lip to see them for herself. She truly felt inadequate because her kid didn’t have teeth yet. TEETH. ye, gods. I bet he has teeth now–Daughter is 18 years old!)
School is what you make it for her, at least the first few years. If she makes friends and feels the teacher likes her and seems to enjoy her learning (even if her learning was that it’s not a good idea to glue Joey’s hand to the table today), chances are she’ll be comfortable and do well in school. If she struggles, her course may not be as smooth. May I suggest meeting the K teachers this year, before school gets out (if you can) and taking her over to the school over the summer to play on the playground to accustom her to the place?
I had a son (#1 for those who are following along at home) who refused to turn 5 (Bday in Jan.) He wanted no part of being 5 years of age; no interest or desire to go to Kindergarten. He refused a party and gifts. I was at my wit’s end (not a far trip) and didn’t know how to handle this. My angst was not helped by the preschool director who told me, “in my 30 years of early childhood education, I’ve never come across this. You have a problem on your hands.” Gee, thanks.
But–I went to my daughter’s school one day (she is older) and ran into her old Kindergarten teacher. I explained my dilemma. She told me to bring #1 to school real casually so that they could meet. I did so in late winter. He brought his dinosaurs (he carried them around a lot) and she made much of them. She said she hoped she’d see him sometime, showed him her dinos and left it at that.
He got over his not wanting to be 5 by that fall, and was happy to go to K. I bring up this story solely to show you that a good working relationship between you and the teacher(s) who will have your child will help immeasurably. She didn’t try to schmooze #1 son or talk him into liking K. She met him where he was: in fierce dino lust and anxious about moving onto a big kid school.
I hope your child has the same experience. It can be a very positive thing, but like all things parent-wise, it bears monitoring and benefits from flexibility.
And now there are products designed to “stimulate” the baby in the womb–I call horseshit and snake oil sales on stuff like that. A good preschool will emphasize social skills(sharing, taking turns, “magic words”) and PLAY–not academics. A good preschool puts kids in with their peers and provides opportunities for group work as well as individual creativity and expression–ie, it’s ok to sit out the sing along or suck your thumb or whatever. It’s ok to go to preschool dressed in a tutu and legwarmers with a camoflage top–and be a boy. That kind of stuff.
A good kindergarten will do much the same–no flash cards allowed. I see no problem with kids having times of structured activities and time for free play/expression. There are kids who go to K w/o preschool–and most of them do fine (I wouldn’t do that just because I think kids like being with their peers at agge 3 and 4. They like the stimulation from other kids. If she’s not in daycare or has no close in age sibs, she probably needs that).
Most districts around here have some type of “academic” screening for 3 or 4 year olds–to see that they’re on track with normal development, NOT to see if they are baby Einsteins. If your kid checks out–no worries, she’ll be fine. You can also check with your pediatrician to ensure she’s hitting her milestones.
I agree with you that this crazy push for ever more achieving kids etc is wrong and will probably backfire on society if it hasn’t already in some way we aren’t aware of now. I hated talking to Those Parents–the ones who compare natural abilities and brag on their kids, as if they were the first people to procreate and take pride in their offspring. These people will make your life miserable, if you let them.
School is what you make it for her, at least the first few years. If she makes friends and feels the teacher likes her and seems to enjoy her learning (even if her learning was that it’s not a good idea to glue Joey’s hand to the table today), chances are she’ll be comfortable and do well in school. If she struggles, her course may not be as smooth. May I suggest meeting the K teachers this year, before school gets out (if you can) and taking her over to the school over the summer to play on the playground to accustom her to the place?
I had a son (#1 for those who are following along at home) who refused to turn 5 (Bday in Jan.) He wanted no part of being 5 years of age; no interest or desire to go to Kindergarten. He refused a party and gifts. I was at my wit’s end (not a far trip) and didn’t know how to handle this. My angst was not helped by the preschool director who told me, “in my 30 years of early childhood education, I’ve never come across this. You have a problem on your hands.” Gee, thanks.
But–I went to my daughter’s school one day (she is older) and ran into her old Kindergarten teacher. I explained my dilemma. She told me to bring #1 to school real casually so that they could meet. I did so in late winter. He brought his dinosaurs (he carried them around a lot) and she made much of them. She said she hoped she’d see him sometime, showed him her dinos and left it at that.
He got over his not wanting to be 5 by that fall, and was happy to go to K. I bring up this story solely to show you that a good working relationship between you and the teacher(s) who will have your child will help immeasurably. She didn’t try to schmooze #1 son or talk him into liking K. She met him where he was: in fierce dino lust and anxious about moving onto a big kid school.
I hope your child has the same experience. It can be a very positive thing, but like all things parent-wise, it bears monitoring and benefits from flexibility.
It might be more understandable if more hours in class actually equated to both broader and deeper subject knowledge. But does it really? Are there stats that show all other factors being equal that more hours in the class means a significantly greater breadth and depth of knowledge entering university? (seriously, is there? IIRC this was still a topic of dispute, especially since it’s quite hard to keep all other factors equal)
From what I see talking to high school students about science and engineering, they’re either no better or seemingly less prepared for college than 20+ years ago when I was in high school. Maybe that’s just cranky old woman speaking…
In some states parents have to pay for kindergarten? There are options between sending them part time or full time? My mind is blown.
So what about low income families? If they can not afford to send full time is thier child going to miss out? I know I never would have been able to afford to pay extra costs like that and my child would have been a part timer.
As it was our school district at the time had half days. Morning or afternoon classes and you had no choice in what time your child got.
I am glad those days are over. I can not even imagine the stress of having to deal with issues like the OP.
In Washington State, parents are not required by law to send a child to school or provide any specific education until they are 8 years old. That said…
There are people who disagree with the “shove structured information down children’s throats as early as possible” crowd. Consider the book Better Late Than Early by Raymond Moore. Oh, and Dr John Medina, whom I will quote:
I do not believe, for all the stress we are placing on children to LEARN LEARN LEARN and COMPETE COMPETE COMPETE now…that we are creating better students, better people, or a better society. And I don’t think starting out regimenting children younger and younger is going to do what we’re trying to do, either.
My 4 year old daughter, who watches Sesame Street (which of course mentions school all the time), asked me when she gets to go to kindergarten. My answer: “Sweetie, you don’t get to. You are already learning all those things at home with your sisters. You already know everything they will teach you, and you have gymnastics class where Teacher John and Teacher Pauline tell you what to do, and take turns in groups.” She said “Oh” and went and got her little workbook she loves to do the pages in, and bombarded me for an hour with ‘what do I do on this page?’.
Twenty years from now, I bet my kids will be no worse off, if no better off, than their peers. They’ll be motivated for college if they want to be - or they’ll drop out like my youngest brother, who by the way graduated from public high school, or not go at all like my oldest brother who went into the military instead. My kids will succeed or fail; they’ll fling themselves with wild abandon into learning or they won’t…just like everybody else. And it won’t make one whit of difference whether they went to half-day kindergarten or full-time kindergarten or learned to read at home with mommy…just like everybody else.
I don’t know whether to laugh or choke at this. In what sort of non-Earth location would dressing like that not get a little boy lynched by his classmates? Of course, it’s okay for anyone to wear whatever clothes they want from a rights perspective, but I can’t believe any preschool wouldn’t instantly send a little boy home if he dressed like that, for his own protection.
As someone who probably would have been better off being taught all by herself, gained nothing but heartache and bitterness from “social interaction” and made precisely zero real friends before college, I hate the idea of mandatory all-day kindergarten because it’s just a more intense beginning to the torture for a lot of kids like me.
Most kids have gone to preschool, which is where they now learn their colors etc (and rudimentary how to sit still and listen to the teacher). Plus, even a few months makes a huge difference at this age–what Johnnie isn’t ready for a 4, he may be ready for at 4.3 etc.