He did talk about the disadvantages that trans women have compared to cis female athletes - one example was larger (cis-male-comparable) frames but with lower (cis women-comparable) muscle mass.
I don’t accuse you of debating in bad faith. I just demonstrate that you’re doing it. And then you consistently prove me right.
If your entire point was to comment only on the very specific California-only law, why have you been so vigorously denying, ignoring and/or minimizing what’s happening to trans people in America right now?
Could you maybe rephrase that in a way that doesn’t sounds exactly like historic arguments against racial integration with the key words substituted?
But some people have concerns.
I had family visiting from overseas the last few days and only had a few brief moments to check in. Sorry for prioritizing.
Which was one example of him minimizing what was actually happening to trans people, whom the government are trying to shove into literal prison.
Oh no, did someone say a mean thing about Babale? We should fix that right away so that he can continue his idle musings about transwomen without having to concern ourselves with the reality of trans people being denied care, having their identity questioned, being victims of violence, and an onslaught of anti-trans laws being enacted.
Because all discussions about trans people should be about the 0.001% competing in girls sports that 0.000% of the anti side gave a crap about before this issue came up.
I’d bet there are 100x as many transgirls who kill themselves every year than there are cisgirls who lose a roster spot to a transgirl.
But yeah, let’s talk about how unfair it is for a theoretical cisgirl to lose their spot to a theoretical transgirl. That’s the topic everyone should focus on, I guess because it involves a cisgirl potentially feeling bad?
I mean, I haven’t done any of that, I just didn’t agree with the term “genocide”. You made up the part where I deny, ignore, or minimize the things happening right now to trans people in America.
I assume that’s a reference to the proposed Texas HB 3817?
In the vacuum universe? Yes. In this universe we are actually inhabiting, where trans athletes are only ever brought up in the context of women’s sports as a wedge issue to dehumanize trans people? Maybe in some limited forum involving actual stakeholders involved in women’s sports, but not on this message board. Any “whataboutism” over trans women’s participation in women’s sports should be presumed transphobic.
Moreover, Babale can fuck right off for his support of the genocide in Gaza.
HB 3817, and the other bills you linked, are exactly what I said above. They’re efforts to prevent trans people from living out in public as the gender they identify with. IE, shove them back in the closet. What the fuck am I denying here?
That it’s no longer about “shoving them back into the closet”. “Shoving them back in the closet” suggests that as long as they were out of sight they’d be out of mind. What’s happening now is about an active pogrom against them. It’s about hurting them in every way possible, including imprisonment and worse.
If a country banned Hijabs, would you call that an attempt to “shove Muslim women into prison”, or would you call that an attempt to prevent them from publicly living as Muslims?
If a country banned, and potentially made illegal gender affirming care and gendered clothing choices but only for trans folks, would you call that an attempt to “shove trans people into prison”, or would you call that an attempt to prevent them from publicly living as trans people?
I would call that an attempt to prevent trans people from living in public as the gender they identify with, yeah. That’s precisely why I made the analogy.
The likely outcome of that would be that trans people would pretend not to be trans when in public – ie, go back in the closet. Few if any would choose to go to prison. That would be a horrible human rights violation, but wouldn’t directly lead to the mass incarceration of trans people.
It absolutely would end in mass incarceration of trans people, as most of us will not go back in the closet willingly. I know I’m not going back, since detransitioning would mean certain death, and many of us feel the same way.
The government is trying to erase us from existence. There is no way around that fact.
I’d certainly think it was a deliberate attempt to harass Muslims. Do you think “wearing a hijab” and “identifying as trans” are of the same degree?
No I’m not claiming that, which is why I didn’t say that.
Some would go back into the closet. Others, as Johanna has already indicated, would not. We can debate what percentage of trans people constitute “mass incarceration” but it wouldn’t be a trivial amount.
Remember again that they are also pushing to incarcerate trans women in men’s prisons, where they experience brutal sexual assault and even death.
I don’t know what “of the same degree” means in this context. Clearly, these are different things. And different individuals have different ways of thinking about and interacting with their religious faith or their gender and sexual identity.
I made the comparison because, just like some trans people cannot live comfortably and authentically if they aren’t allowed to live as the gender they identify with, or to access gender affirming care, some Muslim women cannot live comfortably and authentically in a society that does not allow her to express her religious faith through wearing a Hijab.
You could make similar comparisons to an Orthodox Jew who is not allowed to access kosher food (for example, because kosher slaughter of animals is banned) and so on.