I Pit Babale

[iiandyiiii]

But he’s overseen the annihilation of Gaza absolutely swimmingly… right?

[Babale]

@Jackmannii

U.K. Green Party leader 's “assurances” to Jews living in his district in wake of the party’s “Zionism is racism” resolution don’t go over well.

Damn, that is a VERY powerful letter.

So no, we don’t accept your assurances that we are safe under your watch. You may see no connection between the ceaseless vilification of Israel, the blood libels that you and your party regularly trot out, and the hostility to Jews in this country, but we do.

If this motion does not mean that Jews in Haringey who have family or friends in Israel, or who

attend our synagogue, or who maybe aren’t religious but believe that there is a place for a haven for the tattered remnant of the most persecuted race on earth, are considered by you and your party as racists and by implication fair game for ostracism, intimidation, violence or worse, please explain to us what else it means. And if that is indeed what it means, and we are pretty sure that those who voted for it believe that is precisely what it means, how can we as Jews feel safe when the largest party of the borough we live in, entirely peacefully up to now, publicly align yourself with the most virulent jew-hating racists of all, Hamas and the Nazis.

As it is, despite living in one of the most peaceful and crime free parts of the borough, we have had as a synagogue to invest substantial sums in building terrorism-proof fences round our premises, and employ both volunteers and professional security with stab vests to ensure we can continue to function not just as a place of worship but as a focus for our community.

In addition to our daily threat of the kind of lethal attacks we saw in Manchester and closer to home in Golders Green, we are having to cope with myriad, not so trivial, microaggressions such that our elderly are frightened to identify as Jewish when going into an NHS hospital, parents are worried about sending their children to universities for fear of the abuse they are likely to receive, and young Jews starting their careers are hiding their identity in case it damages their prospects or leads to ostracism and abuse in the workplace.

That is a direct result of you and your comrades’ obsessive and ignorantly one-sided view of one of the world’s most intractable conflicts and your determination to bring that obsession into every facet of life here in Britain.

Yasher koach.

[Thing.Fish]

What many people don’t realize is that the “Green Party Conference” which passed that resolution was open to literally anyone who wanted to show up and claim to be a Green. The resolution clearly doesn’t reflect the beliefs of any Greens who have actually been elected to office, and almost certainly doesn’t reflect the beliefs of the typical Party member.

Which obviously is an absolutely moronic way to run a political party. They may not be antisemites, but they can’t be taken seriously if they’re going to leave themselves open to this kind of shite.

[Gyrate]

Welcome to the Green Party. Well-meaning but hopelessly feckless, and that’s long before Polanski showed up.

[Babale]

@Thing.Fish

The resolution clearly doesn’t reflect the beliefs of any Greens who have actually been elected to office,

I’m hoping you have evidence for this claim and you didn’t just pull it out of your ass?

[Thing.Fish]

You expect me to do your research for you in your own Pit thread?! Piss off

[DSeid]

Well the letter asks this of him:

If you really want us to feel you do not agree with the racist and genocidal implications of your party’s policy, the least we can expect is for you to publicly resile yourself from that policy and commit yourself and your party colleagues to reverse that policy

And FWIW he is on record having opposed it.

Council leader confirms he opposed 'unhelpful' anti-Zionism motion at Green...

Not quite meeting the working to reverse it bar though.

And at MP level four of five Green MPs voted against it.

Green Party zionism vote sparks tensions at party conference

It has highlighted a deep division within the party, as one of its deputy leaders backed it while the other opposed it, as did four of the party’s five MPs.

So it reflect the opinion of one of the five Greens elected to office I guess and was opposed by 80% of Green MPs.

Powerful letter. Yes Blake should actively work to reverse the position. Being opposed is not enough.

[Thing.Fish]

So 4/5. I misremembered. Also, I should have said “MPs” specifically, as I’m sure there’s some Green city councilperson sitting somewhere who supported it.

[Babale]

@DSeid

And FWIW he is on record having opposed it.

That’s not exactly what your link says, is it?

The Green leader of Haringey Council says he did not support the national party’s “unhelpful” motion on Zionism – despite respecting some of its “core principles”.

If you’re hanging out with someone and he goes on a racist tirade and you respond by saying “While I respect some of the core principles your raised, I think focusing on definitions is unhelpful”, I wouldn’t dream of describing you as opposed to racism.

It seems like he essentially agrees with the resolution but, unlike most Green Party activists, he has two brain cells to rub together so he understands that it would be a bad idea to say so publically.

[Babale]

For anyone who is confused, here from the same articles are some examples of people who actually oppose the resolution:

In another statement issued today, Haringey Labour councillors called the Green Party’s motion “deeply concerning”.

The Labour opposition group, while expressing support for a two-state solution for Israelis and Palestinians, said they defined Zionism as “Israel’s right to self-determination”.

They called on the council’s Green minority administration to clarify its position and “reaffirm” its commitment to condemning antisemitism “and all forms of hatred”.

It followed similar calls from Liberal Democrat members of the local authority yesterday (Thursday 8th), who slammed the national Green Party’s motion, describing it as “a hostile move across the Jewish community”.

Where are the statements from elected Greens who are supposedly sane and not anti-semitic calling out the resolution as “deeply concerning” or reiterating that “Zionism is Israel’s right to self determination”?

[DSeid]

@Babale

what your link says,

It literally says it as its headline. To me that means he voted and argued against it. Again I think that is not a sufficient response to it, I would be on board with the congregation’s letter in response, but yes having argued and voted against it counts as opposition to it.

[Babale]

@DSeid

It literally says it as its headline.

Did you read past the headline?

Here’s a scenario.

Nick Fuentes: Black people make up X% of the population but commit Y% of the crimes

Democratic Fascist: While I respect some of the core principles you raise, I think that focusing on statistics is unhelpful

Is the Democratic Fascist in this scenario “opposed” to racism?

[Babale]

I’ll ask you another question that I hope you can answer in good faith. Was Mitch McConnell opposed to January 6th?

I don’t think he supported January 6th, but did he meaningfully oppose it? I would argue that the answer is clearly no.

[DSeid]

And as to statements from the MPs:

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/greens-plunged-into-antisemitism-crisis-after-members-resoundingly-back-zionism-is-racism-motion/

In a statement, five Green MPs – Ellie Chowns, Adrian Ramsay, Siân Berry, Carla Denyer and Hannah Spencer – issued a joint statement insisting that there is “no conflict between supporting the rights of Palestinians and the rights of Jewish people”.

It will be seen as an attempt to disassociate themselves from the ‘Zionism is racism’ motion their conference has just passed.

Observers from the wider European Greens movement present at the Brighton Centre were said to be “deeply concerned” by the proceedings.

Polanski had been a rising star as I understand. But the Greens on the ground, not in leadership, are not going to be led by a Jewish man for much longer I think. I would not be surprised if he resigns from leadership and from the party.

Yes I read the whole article. If a US Senator argues and votes against a bill I consider them to have been in opposition to the bill, however mealy and weak their statements were. Likewise here.

[DSeid]

Re Jan 6th. I don’t think he had a chance to vote on it.

[Babale]

@DSeid

And as to statements from the MPs:

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/greens-plunged-into-antisemitism-crisis-after-members-resoundingly-back-zionism-is-racism-motion/

In a statement, five Green MPs – Ellie Chowns, Adrian Ramsay, Siân Berry, Carla Denyer and Hannah Spencer – issued a joint statement insisting that there is “no conflict between supporting the rights of Palestinians and the rights of Jewish people”.

It will be seen as an attempt to disassociate themselves from the ‘Zionism is racism’ motion their conference has just passed.

So they made a vague statement that the article (not them) asserts is meant to distance themselves from the resolution?

So you concede that none of them did anything along these lines?

@Babale

calling out the resolution as “deeply concerning” or reiterating that “Zionism is Israel’s right to self determination”?

@DSeid

Re Jan 6th. I don’t think he had a chance to vote on it.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/13/mcconnell-reveals-he-will-vote-to-acquit-trump-468988

[DSeid]

Again I really don’t care about the statements as much as actual opposing votes.

Here though is the damning bit, Polanski lost his by election (and campaigning was his excuse for missing the vote) but afterwards has taken this tact:

Asked if he supported the motion, he said: “I would have supported the motion as amended. It wasn’t amended, so no.”

But he added: “Ultimately, I agree with the substance of the motion. Where I disagree is the idea the Green Party should be deciding what the future of the region looks like.”

On BBC Radio 4’s Today programme Mr Polanski, who is Jewish, repeatedly refused to say whether Israel had a right to exist.

“I believe Israelis and Palestinians should have equal rights in a democracy,” he said.

Asked to give a yes/no response on whether Israel had the right to exist, he added: “At the moment Palestinians don’t have equal rights, so I think I’m answering your question really clearly.”

Polanski insists he will carry on as Green leader despite by-election defeat

Sorry @Thing.Fish - he isn’t an elected official but he is party leader and that counts for a bunch.

[Sylvanz]

For the most part I’m a descriptivist, buttt, I literally hate the literally thing. I’ve sort of given up on it, but I still cringe every. single. time.

[MrDibble]

Damn, I shouldn’t have reminded Babs that he was under active moderation:
as he went from this:

Anti-Zionism really does make people take the exact opposite positions to the ones they normally would; it’s quite incredible.

To this

NVM

in the P&E Israel/Gaza thread.
Never mind that I’ve been against slurs consistently for ages (since I gave up “cunt” and “hillbilly”)

Of course, the fundamental cowardice on display there today is how he really wanted to call Moser a race traitor but could only dare allude to it obliquely.

[iiandyiiii]

@MrDibble

Anti-Zionism really does make people take the exact opposite positions to the ones they normally would; it’s quite incredible.

For @Babale – is it your Zionism, or something else, that makes you take the exact opposite of positions you otherwise normally would – like supporting Trump and Hegseth to start and oversee a war?