I don’t see anywhere that he asked if it was a valid check. He asked if sufficient funds existed in the BofA business account to cover the check. The teller apparently answered that it was a valid account and that there were funds to cover it. He said, “Great,” and asked to cash it.
If had voiced concerns about the validity of the check to the teller (and he was suspicious; it was a $2000 check for a $600 pair of bikes), maybe he wouldn’t have been arrested. That said, I do agree that the police were overzealous here.
Because small community banks and credit unions don’t pay out as much interest as mega banks and online banks (In general… I’m sure some pay good interest, but most don’t. Usually a good 1.5% difference).
[nitpick]Funds in an account are liabilities to a bank, the loans they have out are the assets.[/nitpick] It’s backwards from how normal non-banker humans would think of it
Please forgive my ignorance if I’m off base, but doesn’t inquiring as to whether an account has sufficient funds imply asking whether or not it was valid? After all, if the account wasn’t valid, wouldn’t the bank teller be able to tell him that when checking the account’s funds? And if the check itself wasn’t valid, wouldn’t the teller also be able to tell him that when attempting to cash it, without resorting to such extreme measures?
No, maybe he didn’t use those exact words, but it seems implied that he was checking to see whether or not it was legal, valid tender.
I mean, it should have been a simple scenario, although I am not a banker or a teller. Shouldn’t it go something like this:
After the initial, ‘This account has sufficient funds, you’re OK’ and ‘Great, I’d like to cash this, please’, the teller goes to the account to cash the check.
Uh oh, warning pops up, or whatever warnings do when accounts are flagged. Blow streamers through the air and flash red sirens, for all I know. Pixels dance about the screen, or what have you.
Teller: Excuse me a moment, I need to check with my supervisor about something.
The teller can then go to whomever they need to see about the matter.
Teller: A customer came in wishing to cash this check. I informed him that the account funds were sufficient, but there appears to be a problem with the account. (Maybe it gave them a message to get a supervisor, maybe they got the 'flagged for fraud message, whatever. They can explain that.)
I don’t know bank policy or chain of command, but it would seem to me that it would be easy enough for the bank teller to explain the situation and request the manager / whatever come out and deal with the issue. The supervisor / manager what-have-you could then address the customer.
I also don’t know what kind of confidentiality restrictions they have, but assuming that the manager person is able to tell the customer that the account and/or check is invalid or marked for fraudulent activity:
Manager: Sorry to keep you waiting. Upon inspection of the check, we’ve discovered that it is invalid (And that the account is flagged for fraud, et cetera, whatever they’re legally able to reveal to that person).
Then, just possibly, they could question the person to ask where they received such a check, or the circumstances leading up to them trying to cash this check here. The customer could explain, ‘I sold some bicycles online, and this is the payment that I received from the buyer.’ And whatever other necessarily details were required or asked.
Obviously the check could be destroyed, and there is no harm done to any party. Why the police had to be involved to the extent of coming and taking the guy away in cuffs just seems completely out of line, to me.
Again, I know nothing of financial politics, or how banks function, or their policy, and I don’t pretend to know. This is just common sense of my own brain as to how a bank should, or could handle this type of situation. I hope I’m not being terribly ignorant, although I may be altogether too optimistic, here.
I don’t believe it’s all the bank’s fault or all the police’s fault. But perhaps if ONE of the TWO parties could have had a sane human being on their side, this poor bastard wouldn’t have been sent rowing upstream on shit creek, with his face for a oar.
It’s not like the guy came in all sneaky-like with an AK-47 and a facemask and told the teller ‘Gimme all yer money.’
Again, feel free to cane me if I’ve messed up important details. With cane sugar, preferably. I haven’t had my sugar fix, today.
From the banks point of view, this guy walked in with a stolen or forged check. They don’t know if he wrote it to himself, or if he got it from someone trying to buy moutain bikes. A crime was comitted and it is not the banks job to figure out wither the guy in the lobby is the bad guy or the victim. and forget asking them politely to go into the back room…if it is the bad guy you do that and he’s gone. They did what they are supposed to do, call the cops and let them sort it out. It’s the cops job to investigate and deterimine what is going on.
True, they don’t know whether he wrote it himself or not. I would think it would be at least partially their responsibility to figure out whether there is reasonable cause to have him drug off to jail before calling the police. If I’m wrong, then sucks to be him, I guess. I didn’t realize it was policy to jump the gun in such a major way over such an issue.
I really don’t see how it automatically makes him the ‘bad guy’, either.
It’s been 20 years since I was a teller, but yeah, that’s pretty much it. If someone presented me with a check to cash, I’d check every resource I reasonably could, including the big WARNING memo field flashing on my screen. And we tended to give customers the benefit of the doubt.
But yeah, sometimes we felt that our best move was to quietly call the cops. And we trusted that they’d bring justice to bear. Looks like that was definitely misplaced trust.
Let’s see- Shinnick presents a forged check to BoA, and attempts to cash it. Unbeknownest to him, the check is not only forged but part of a scam. The police know about the scam. The bank properly cal the police and reports the forged check. The police- even though they know about this scam and the fact that Shinnick is very likely a victim, not a scamster- over react and arrest him. The Poilce do not have to arrest Shinnick note, they can question him and release him and wait for for the DA to file charges.
So, why the fuck is BoA being pitted here? The dudes who should be PITed are the SFPD and this “ClarkHoward” moron. :mad:
It doesnt automatically make him the bad guy. Thats what the police are for, to figure out if he is the bad guy. I imagine that the bank didn’t expect the police to drag him off in handcuffs without investigating it. A reasonable person would assume that the poice would show up, be polite, and ask a few question to figure whats going on. Thats what I would assume if I was the bank teller.
So again. it was the police that jumped the gun, not the bank.
But that’s exactly what the police are supposed to do. If I witness suspicious activity, I don’t talk to the suspicious people or get out my lawbook and see if it’s illegal, I call the cops. Just because I’ve called them and they show up, they don’t have to arrest someone.
Furthermore, the law that they’re “hiding” behind is totally reasonable. If I call the cops and they violate someone’s rights, in no way should I be liable for that.
Y’all should have listened in to Clark Howard’s show today. The point is that any one of us who takes a check for payment might end up in the same situation under this kind of policy. Clark and some of the callers made the point that with most banks, you can call and check to see if funds are available to cover a check. With Bank of America, you can’t. They direct you to come in to a branch office, and then they can arrest you.
Well…again, its not BoA that arrests you. My company uses BoA for an account…if someone is running around writing fake checks from my company to themselves I would rather they get that person in the lobby and find out who they are and where they got my check from than tip them off over the phone so they can move on to the next victim. Its up to police to decide if the person with the check is victim or a crook.
BofA (Bunch of Assholes, Bank of Apartheid) has always sucked donkey dick. I opened an account with them once a few years back and they screwed up everything that could possibly be screwed. It took weeks to untangle the mess. As soon as I was able I took my money and told them to fuck off. They recently bought out one of my credit cards and I cut it up - MBNA is dead to me now. DEAD!
With cane sugar, preferably. I haven’t had my sugar fix, today.