We are Devos
Are we not men?
D - E - V - O - S
I actually heard that DeVos had a plan for Michigan. If we could get 5 other states to buy into it & then those 5 could recruit 5 more each, we could be the “Diamond State” and a portion of all their tax revenue would role up to our level.
… Or something like that…
When a problem comes along, you must whip it…out?
a joke not all wil get
Why, who doesn’t know Amway is a pyramid scheme? gonzomax mentioned it in the Op.
Did anyone else get a picture of little red flowerpot hats on a certain part of the male anatomy?
Anyone?
Bueller?
i don’t assume all know about Amway. hell, not even all Michiganders know about Amway, as evidenced by his nomination.
Amway. Quiztar, TEAM, Team of Destiny, Network 21 - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com I have known Amway distributors. They were encouraged to write their homes and phones etc on their taxes. They got in trouble.
Velma How do you hold Grandholm responsible for the auto companies and suppliers moving to China and India . Our machine tool business has been moved totally abroad too. I was reading when GM announced they were closing a plant in Michigan, they were opening a new one in China. We have moved to places with no environmental rules, and workers who make very little. We are the first to feel it. There will be a drop in wages for everybody in the future. Ironically Bush says get an education. Sorry in Michigan programmers, engineers, designers and skilled trades were chopped. They are the ones who had high wages and it will be done for pennies in China and India.
DeVos and the Michigan Republicans are getting their just desserts. Let’s go back to the Engler years. When Engler took office, there was over a billion dollars in the state rainy-day fund. When he left, it was dry as a bone. He spent a billion more than he took in. He gave lucrative no-bid contracts to a computer firm that he now happens to represent. He was Boss Hogg, but in a larger suit size, spending money like a drunken sailor but refusing to pick up the tab, cutting taxes as if the deficit was of no concern. The state budget was in absolute disarray when he left and the GOP knew what a mess it was.
They ran the stiff Posthumus in 2002, knowing he would lose and letting Granholm inherit a seriously unbalanced budget. Their hope was that she would clean Engler’s diapers by raising taxes and that once the budget was under control, they would use her tax increases against her in 2008 to run a True Rightie to dismantle state government once and for all. But she didn’t cooperate. She was able to balance the budget without tax increases by making draconian cuts, particularly in education. But balance it she did, with GOP party chair Betsy DeVos sniping at her every move.
Jump to 2006 and DeVos has been on the tube for over a year, pledging to get Michigan back to work. But how? He spoke of the Single Business Tax as if it alone was responsible for the downturn, yet the Republicans had control of the legislature during Engler’s reign for 12 years and didn’t lift a finger about it. Once Granholm took office, the SBT was the source of all that was unholy. So they managed to kill the SBT, and the question of the campaign was how are you going to replace it? DeVos gave absolutely no clue, other than to say he would only replace about half of it. Granholm had already cut virtually all the fat in state govenment, part of the muscle, and even a little bone. Making more cuts to make up for losing half of the SBT simply is not possible. Yet DeVos refused to address this. Instead, he criticized Granholm for cutting education (which she had to do to make up for Engler’s waste).
In the debates he came off as an idiot, and that’s putting it kindly. This in contrast to her steady and forceful camera presence. He ran a lousy campaign woefully short on specifics. If you look at the returns by county, , he got his clock cleaned in every urban county save for his native Kent County, and was fairly competitive in conservative Oakland. In the rural counties there was little difference between the two, save for a strong DeVos showing in heavily Dutch Ottawa County. In Flint, Lansing, and Detroit he got clobbered. You can’t win the governorship without addressing urban issues and the result was no surprise.
Of course, Amway was a factor. Most of us in Michigan know someone wrapped up in it and think of it as a pyramid scheme. Being the head of this company did nothing to help his campaign.
I don’t hold her solely responsible. I didn’t say I did. I voted for her in her first election. I think she did a pretty good job and has good intentions for Michigan. I do hold her partly responsible, she is the governor. I agree that she was handed a craptacular situation. Still, she fell short in some areas.
Auto manufacturers have left for many reasons, and GM needs to wake up and fix a lot of that themselves. The rising cost of union labor and healthcare for everyone are also a big big problem that everyone needs to get real about. Everyone talks about how great it used to be, we will never have it that way again. We can’t fix it, we need to completely overhaul it and look to different trades also.
You also don’t have to tell me about the tool and machine trade. My husband is a tool and die maker and has been laid off since July. My father, a white-collar worker, has been looking for work for 2 years. I work in the engineering sector. My family has been directly and personally impacted by Michigan’s economy and I don’t blame any one person for that, but we need someone to step up. We are paying for our own health insurance now and I know how expensive and difficult it is to get even basic crappy coverage. I can’t send my kid in good conscience to my district’s public school because it is a joke. So I think I have a handle on a lot of the issues and how Michigan is lacking, thank you.
I usually vote split ticket, based on policies and the individual. I usually vote more Democrat than Republican (I have never before voted for a Republican in a higher than senatorial level.) This election I held my nose and voted for DeVos kind of out of desperation. I was hoping he would focus on the economy and nothing else, he was able to build a hugely successful company and I thought he would approach things like a businessman and not a politician. (I had to ignore many of his social stances to be able to vote for him, but I didn’t think he could do any real harm there.) I am not devestated that he lost as I don’t love the guy. I am also not suprised at all that he lost, in fact I predicted that he would lose, and by more than 10 points. I hope Granholm can make the drastic changes that are needed.
He didnt build it. He inherited it. If you read the info ,you see they did it at the expense of others and somewhat dishonestly. I am am auto engineer. I am in my 60s and know I can never do what I did for 35 years again. I would be depressed if my attitude allowed it. Bars ,restaurants everything in Michigan is hurting. I have seen enormous layoffs. One company I worked for at one time employed 460 workers. They now have 40.They are waiting for the axe to come for them.They sent their build operations to China a long time ago.The entire midwest is in the same boat.The NAFTA,CAFTA and Shafta have wrecked the high paying industries that employed a highly trained and educated staff.
This is an important distinction. I actually would rephrase “He was born into it.”
Amway is more a lifestyle than a business. I didn’t call it “Planet Amway” lightly - I’ve worked inside their corporate campus and seen some of their events. They have a separate culture, and they are successful only to those who choose to join that culture. Devos is only successful inside that sphere, and he had a grand headstart on everyone else by having the company handed to him. That’s a far cry from businessmen like Lee Iaccoca or Hendrick Meijer. That Devos shares the same title of “Businessman” with those two gentlemen proves how meaningless the title is. Devos couldn’t even compete with those two in a game of Go Fish.
I’m part of the “Michigan Brain Drain” that’s seen a lot of print in the last year. I couldn’t find work in my field and had to leave the state back in '99. It pains me to hear of the situation back home, and I’d return if I had even half the chance of a comparable job to the one I have here - but I don’t and I won’t. If the economy ever turns around, I’ll be back home the next minute. That’s why I watch the situation so closely.
If I pit anyone I’d pit the republicans for putting up Devos for governor. But, he has a shitload of money, and spent a lot of it on his campaign, so it didn’t really cost them anything. I mean, it’s not like the republicans actually want to solve the problems in this state anyhow. I think they looked at our present economic situation as a chance to try to break the strong union culture of Detroit once and for all, and that would have been DeVos goal had he stepped into office.
Granholm may have inheirited a lot of problems, but she’s a big part of the problem, too. Her good buddy Mike Duggan got the head of the DMC job, and a huge salary to boot. And of course when the DMC asked for a 500 million dollar loan from the state to keep them out of bankruptcy, they got it as well. But Duggan’s been filling his top positions with sycophants at inflated salaries instead of finding thinkers and strategists, and it’s going to come crashing back down sooner or later. This is not the way to go about problem-solving in Michigan.
Engler, while an asshole, also looked at the Detroit schools and how badly they are fucked up and said “you dipshits can’t run your schools better than this? Then we’ll run them from Lansing!” Of course, Lansing didn’t do a great job either, but they weren’t given very long. Detroit schools spend as much per student as they do in Farmington, and have squat to show for it except run down buildings and striking teachers.
The job of Michigan governor isn’t really something you’d wish on anyone–at least not lately.
I meant “built” as in “built up” I should have been more clear. You’re right that he didn’t start the business and I don’t admire him the same way I do Meijer. I was just hoping he could put his business knowledge to work in a way that a normal politician wouldn’t. People who know how to run a successful business know how to make cuts where things aren’t working and try something different, and they think long term. I was hoping he would have a new perspective on what is good for Michigan businesses. (whatever I think about Amway’s history, I do know people who work for Alticor and have good paying normal jobs that don’t involve recruiting and cultish behavior.) I would not have voted for him under normal circumstances, like I said I don’t like his social policies.
The rest of the midwest is not as bad off as we are. No one has the same auto dependency we do. We are about tied with Mississippi for the worst unemployment in the country, with Alaska next I believe.
"Over the year, nonfarm employ-
ment increased in 49 states and the District of Columbia and decreased in 1
state (Michigan, -32,900 or -0.7 percent). " (bolding mine)
from here:
The unemployment rate in the country is understated. I read that the L.A. Times did a study and said there it was 50 percent higher than reported… Once unemployment ends the person drops off the rolls. The condition in Mich, is worse than most can believe. A few years ago the Sunday News would have 6 or 8 pages a t least of Engineering jobs. Nowadays .often,there are none.It would be shocking to know the real unemployment rate in Mich.
Like some of you guys know, I have two degrees and only have a part time job at a credit union. I gotta tell you, every day that I work the teller line, I see at least 5 unemployment checks. Given that my c.u. will have about 8-10 tellers each day, and I know my experience is the same as theirs (and given that a credit union generally has less members than a bank will), that’s a lot of unemployment checks.
I’m beginning to look out of state as well, Lev. I’m sure my two Bachelor of Science degrees will be a lot more marketable elsewhere. When you have to compete with thousands of people who have tons more experience than you (and are so desperate for a job they’d take entry level wages too, with more experience as a bonus), two degrees don’t mean much. I guess I’ll be part of the Brain Drain soon too (much to my mom’s dismay at seeing her baby apply at out of state places).
Don’t take this personally, but I think I love you.
Careful - I have an insanely jealous wife… :eek: