…there you go making assumptions and insulting people again. Maybe, just maybe, the people you are insulting know more than you think.
Now I started to respond to the rest of your post, but I suddenly realized that I really have more important things to do than to win a debate on the internet. Suffice to say congrats on finding a cite: and after reading it and checking out the primary sources I’m not at all convinced that you have backed up your assertions.
It is not unfair to ask for primary information. When you make a claim such as:
I would fully expect to be provided with at least some primary data. Do Sweden and Finland track people trafficking the same way? What years were these? What were the laws in Finland at the time? The report you linked to mentions Finland twice, the data is quite clearly labeled as estimates only, and after searching for about fifteen minutes I can’t verify the figures anywhere. And besides, this report was written eight years ago based on information gathered probably ten years ago. What exact years were these statistics gathered? From here:
I can’t track down any more reliable stats for Finland in the half an hour of trying: how about you? If we take the US State Department figures as acceptable: in 2008 nine people were prosecuted for trafficking in Finland in 2008. Based on this I am skeptical of the 17,000 Finland 200 Sweden comparison from back prior to 2003. As mentioned in this report:
Is the same definition used for “humans trafficked” in both Sweden and Finland? Now that is just one of many, many of the different “facts” regarding prostitution that have doubtful veracity. My favourite “fact” provided by you was that legalized prostitution had resulted in an increase in brothels. Imagine that! Legalizing brothels has resulted in more brothels! Who would have thought? Why is this a bad thing?
New Zealand has had legalized prostitution since 2003. The biggest advocates for the legislation was the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective:, an organization formed by prostitutes to protect the rights of prostitutes. They fought for the law change, they helped draft the new laws, they continue to fight to this day the continued attacks and stigma associated with the industry.
I’ve posted this before, but I’ll do it again. This is the full text of the speech of the former member of parliament Georgina Beyer on the eve of the passing of the Prostitution Law Reform Act of 2003. When I was working with the Parliamentary Caterers back in 2002 Georgina was one of my favourite politicians to work with. Georgina was the first elected transsexual Member of Parliament and in her early days used to work as a sex worker.
(Quote from Hansard quoted in full in compliance with NZ Copyright rules in regards to parliamentary reporting)
[QUOTE=GEORGINA BEYER]
I rise to make my contribution to the third reading of this bill, which I support. I would like to begin by expressing my gratitude to the members of this Parliament for a considered and varied debate from both sides and both points of view. Along with that, I congratulate supporters of both sides of the argument for their contribution, which expresses a fair view from both sides of the nation. I particularly congratulate and pay great credit to Tim Barnett, who has had the courage and commitment to see this bill through to this most important point.
I support the bill, because, as everybody knows, I have had experience in the sex industry—and I am the only member of this Parliament to have had it. If I had had a law like this to protect me and give me some teeth for redress when I was 16 and 17 years old—even on entering into the sex industry—then I might have been spared the 5 or so years I spent in that industry. Barriers would have been created against people who would coerce those under 18 to enter the sex industry in the first place. I support this bill for all the prostitutes I have ever known who have died before the age of 20 because of the inhumanity and hypocrisy of a society that would not ever give them the chance to redeem whatever circumstances made them arrive in that industry.
This bill provides some of that protection. It provides people like me at that time with some form of redress for the brutalisation that might happen when a client pulls a knife. The horror of that situation is that it could be a life and death one—one does not know—but it would have been nice to know that instead of having to deal out justice afterwards to that person myself, I might have been able to approach the authorities—the police in this case—and say: “I was raped, and, yes, I’m a prostitute, and, no, it was not right that I should have been raped, because I said no, and it was not paid attention to.”
I think of all the people I have known in that area who have suffered because of the hypocrisy of our society, which, on the one hand, can accept prostitution, while, on the other hand, wants to push it under the carpet and keep it in the twilight world that it exists in. We are bringing prostitution reform into the light with some of what is proposed in this bill, and the criminal element does not necessarily like to be standing in the glare of greater public influence over how an industry like this might be conducted within our society. It is about accepting that that occurs, and it is about accepting the fact that the people who work in this industry deserve some human rights. I plead with those members in this House who are wavering right up to the wire, to think, for heaven’s sake, of the people of whom I have just spoken, including myself, who might be spared some of the hideous nature of the way society treats prostitutes—because that is here with us.
But if one does have fears, this legislation will be reviewed in 5 years to see how it is operating and whether it is effective. If this bill passes tonight, in 5 years we will be able to reassess its worth. That is something that those who are wavering should be comforted by. But to do nothing now would be irresponsible of this Parliament, because the status quo would remain, and that is unacceptable. This is our one chance in perhaps 20 years to do something. Whatever side of the argument we take, I know we all come from a humanitarian point of view, but I beg members to consider the side I am on, and the side many others in this House are on also. It is the side I consider to be right. It does not diminish, in my opinion, the opinions of those who are against this bill, because some valid points have been made, but not to address this issue now, with this possibility, is not right.
I will conclude by saying that right now we have a sex industry, and we have legislation based on an outmoded double standard. Let us change, please, the part we can.
[/QUOTE]
Eight years on from legalization many of the terrible things that happened to friends of mine no longer happen. The industry is cleaner, safer and worker friendly. The world hasn’t come to an end.
I’m not particularly interested in doing the legwork for the article or for you. Why don’t you show me the context. Show me what year the survey was done. Show me what countries the workers were surveyed in. Show me the study that concludes that 75-80% of prostitutes don’t act of their own free will. Define “free will” in context of this statement. I see no reason why I should take that little snippet as reliable considering I have no idea if it is talking about Prostitutes in NZ, or Australia, or Finland, or the United States, or wherever. Why do you trust those numbers?
Legalized prostitution is not the enemy and treating women who choose to work in the industry as victims is belittling and insulting. Illegal trafficking should be fought with the full power of the law and if people are being forced into prostitution then everything should be done to bring the perpetrators to justice. Just don’t single out legalized prostitution as the cause of the problem when the real problem (as shown by your cite) is poorly enforced regulation, open borders, criminal syndicates and under resourcing.