Why is it illegal?
Sounds like a GQ. Did you mean, “should it be illegal”?
Note that though I specifically reference females, most of everything applies to the minority male prostitutes:
Why it should be illegal:
- Girls* hanging out on street corners is both dangerous and “brings down the level” of the local area.
- Potential health risk. And though you can police that, why should the government have to police prostitution businesses so that horny males don’t have to use their fist and tax payers pay for that.
- It is potentially socially dangerous to allow society to believe that a human body can be bought to be used for solely ones own enjoyment.
- Religious beliefs… (bleh)
Why it should be legal:
- Sole employment in the world that requires no qualifications except having some subset of sexual (and non…) organs and orfices that are common to humanity. As such, it is a free-economy welfare system.
- “It’s none of the government’s business to tell me what I can or can’t do with my body, including sell it.”
Why it will remain illegal:
- Pity the politician who has to explain trying to re-legalise prostitution to his wife. “Of course I wouldn’t go to a brothel! I do this only for my country!”
Personally, I have no particular opinion beyond that I highly disrespect someone who would sell his/her own body and anyone who was willing to use a human as a purchased sex-toy. But simply because I dislike it doesn’t necessarily mean it should be illegalised. As it is illegal though, I can’t profess to care to fight for reversing that though.
Let me rephrase that, as I have no particular issue with someone who has to become a prostitute due to a lack of education or financial stability, etc. I was speaking more of the Paris Hilton type who goes “Well heck, $200 an hour! Yaaaay new shoes.” that as I understand it is the type that does a lot of the legal prostitution in Nevada.
I would say making prostitution illegal is an outgrowth of morally conservative groups within the US. The same types of groups that brought us Prohibition.
I would be interested to see how making prostitution illegal in the United States tracks with the growth of power of women in politics. That is I wonder if prostitution was always illegal in the US or if it slowly became criminalized as women became more able to wield political clout. That is not to say that there are not men out there who find prostitution morally reprehensible but as a practical matter politicians pass the laws and our politicians have never been known as a prudish bunch despite proclaiming what paragons of virtue they are in order to get elected.
If the question is “should prostitution be criminalized” I think the answer is a definite “no”. It should be regulated to be certain just as many other industries are. I do not think we would want to see prostitutes soliciting near high schools for instance but more related to health issues.
As a practical matter prostitution is alive and well in the US anyway. I think keeping it illegal is one of those things that is left on the books because no politician would get very far proposing it should be legal. So, keeping it “invisible” placates the moral majority types while law enforcement is lax and spotty at best. Those who wish to avail themselves of a prostitute can do so fairly easily (in a big city at least) with little fear of being arrested and everyone else can pretend its not really out there except among the dregs of society.
Re #2:
A strong case can be made that legalizing prostitution would be the better choice for society from a health risk point of view. If prostitution were legal it could be regulated and that may include regular testing of sex workers for various diseases. Sex workers who wanted to remain “licensed” would also be more likely to be more careful of who they had sex with and to use condoms. Those who avail themselves of a prostitute’s services would be more likely to visit one who was licensed and tested than one who wasn’t. Doubtless some women would still remain outside the system and solicit illegally but it would be far less than it is now.
As for the cost to taxpayers I doubt it is an issue at all. Prostitutes could be charged a fee by the government for licensing just as the governemnt does for most any license it provides. This could either cover or mitigate the costs associated with this. Further, legal prostitutes would (theoretically) now pay income tax which I doubt they do much of currently. I would be willing to bet form a money point of view the government would make FAR more money with legalized prostitution than having it illegal. Do not forget the amount of money the government spends running prostitutes through the criminal system when they are caught and that most definitely is a cost to taxpayers.
Re #3:
I do not see how prostitution is dangerous at all in the way you mentioned. No one is condoning using women (or men) as slaves. Prostitution is an agreement to trade services for money between two consenting adults. It is the oldest profession in the world. I do not see how it being legal or illegal changes anyone’s views in this regard one way or the other. Many western european countries have legalized prostitution and have for ages. Certainly we do not see anything like what you are talking about there (not on a societal scale anyway…doubtless there are a few morons who think that way).
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole]
Re #2:
A strong case can be made that legalizing prostitution would be the better choice for society from a health risk point of view.
[quote]
Assuming that most prostitutes worked legally. But I suspect that you would end up with the current level of illegal prostitutes still existing even when you added in legal prostitution, just as pimps taking advantage of drug addict girls and customers caring more about the price than the quality will not have changed. So you would still have the current level of risk + some slight more just because condoms aren’t 100%.
Valid.
As said, I would be inclined to believe the amount of illegal prostitution would not change–so the police would be just as busy.
I didn’t state what the danger was–I just said that it is potentially dangerous–so I’m not sure what you read into it as the danger being.
That’s not what I meant.
History then is rife with sexual understanding, equality, and enlightenment?
Not sure what way you mean?
But anyhoo, for instance, I live in Japan and the high school girls here are perfectly willing to sell their bodies for new shoes. That I can tell this does not have a positive effect on these girls. Why work in life or try and achieve something? And I do think that over time, the separation between their bodies and their self becomes so great that they crumble and become hollow shells.
Simply, regardless of whether it makes logical sense or not, people are built to emotionally view their body as their self. And a long period of willingly selling yourself–and of feeling sexual pleasure even though the person on top of you is a detestable, balding, alcohol-breathed, fat Japanese guy with daughters your own age; well what does that do for your own feeling of self-worth? How will that make you view your own father?
A street-smart girl who already believes that life sucks and who has no proper education or chance for a future–she has no illusion for the profession she is entering–but she’ll probably not end up at a high class, legally licensed place. But in my experience from knowing a girl who had a sister who worked in Nevada and then living in Japan at least, legal prostitutes are severely opening themselves up to a lot of psychological damage and gnawing away at any hope of being able to maintain a feeling of self-worth.
And dudes who couldn’t care less about how the girl under them feels about herself–as said I have no respect for.
If you just want no-ties sex, find a sex-club or a fuck-buddy. No-ties sex is fine, and there are people of both sexes who want that: Find them. But treating a human as a blow-up doll could really be screwing with that girls mind.
Though, of course, I have never lived in Germany–so perhaps it doesn’t need to become this way. So as said, I don’t particularly view it as something that “has” to be illegal–but being illegal, I’m sure not fighting against that.
[QUOTE=Sage Rat]
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole]
Re #2:
A strong case can be made that legalizing prostitution would be the better choice for society from a health risk point of view.
I do not think you would end up with the same number of illegal prostitutes if prostitution were legalized. Doubtless there would still be illegal prostitution but those woud mostly be people who could not get a license (due to having an STD for instance). When customers realize that the unlicensed prostitutes are usually that way because they are likely carrying a disease or have some other issue (say having robbed a customer) those willing to seek them out will drop dramatically.
No but the point is in countries where prostitution is legal you see their attitudes towards sex or the opposite or what have you no worse than in countries where it is illegal. Indeed, my impression of many western european countries is they have a much healthier view of sexuality than their more puritanical bretheren in the United States do.
Prostitution is legal in several European countries, such as Holland, Germany, Belgium and Switzerland. Plus Australia and New Zealand.
Although the legal situation varies, generally such prostitutes register, pay taxes and have regular health checks.
My biggest problem with legalizing prostitution is that corporate types would find a way to make all the profits while paying the prostitutes minimum wage. 'Course, pimps already do that, and worse, so it may be a moot point. Would be interesting to see the difference between wages where prostitution is generally legal and wages where it isn’t.
I don’t see how selling your body for sex is any different than selling your hands for making hamburgers, selling your voice for making telemarker calls, or selling your feet to deliver the mail. Sure, there is an emotional element, but there is an emotional element to plenty of lines of work. The guy at McDonalds isn’t smiling because he’s happy to see you. He’s smiling because he’ll get fired if he doesn’t make you feel happy and well-served.
In an ideal world, everyone would have work that is fulfilling, dignified, and uses their talents to their fullest potential. But there are a lot of crap jobs out there. Only one of them makes thousands of bucks a night.
I would argue, though, that the sense of lowered self-worth is due to social construct. Because prostitution/selling your body is seen as a shameful thing in our society, prostitutes have to deal with the emotional and mental challenges caused by participating in something frowned on by society.
OTOH, if prostitution was seen as a healthy outlet and socially acceptable career, I don’t think that prostitutes would carry the same mental baggage.
I liken it to many of the fashion changes over the years and how that affects a person’s image of him/herself. When a curvy, hourglass figure was considered the ultimate in beauty for women, then some women with thin/straight/“boyish” figures struggled with feelings of inadequacy. Now that thin/straight/“boyish” figures are the ultimate in beauty for women, we have some people starving themselves to try to fit into an image that society finds acceptable.
I think prostitution/prostitutes would be the same way if attitudes toward it changed. Socially acceptable = no more shame and no more lowered self-worth.
Certain states in Australia - it’s not a federally mandated thing. Prostitution is allowed and brothels advertise freely in Sydney, but in Adelaide it’s illegal and anything more than ‘sensual massage’ can and will get you charged if you’re caught.
I’m a believer of the legalising of prostitution, and I agree with Novalyne and Whack-a-Mole’s points. If prostitution was a socially accepted occupation, then there would be less social stigma, and you may even find less girls resorting to drugs and alcohol just to get through their shift, because they don’t need to drown the shame that the feel for being dirty. They could also have the licences, and the necessary testing, they could have a mandated minimum wage, and pay income tax/get health insurance/have superannuation.
It would be safer for the girls as well. And I believe it would also help clear up one of the problems that Sage Rat mentioned. To whit:
In Sydney, where prostitution is legalised, I only ever saw girls on the ‘street corner’ in King’s Cross - a notorious red light district. I lived in Ryde and Fairfield(North and West respectively), middle to lower-middle class suburbs - they had brothels, and the girls were employed by and stayed in the brothels. The girls who did in-calls, or who worked from home, stated so in their newspaper ads. I never saw a one on the streets outside of the Cross.
If prostitution is legalised, so is advertising for it. So there’s no need for the girls to walk the streets, in a dangerous situation. They can stay at home/in the brothel, advertise in the paper, and wait for the punters to come to them.
IMHO, the benefits of legalised prostitution far outweigh the costs.
Prostitution is not illegal in Canada, but there are some laws related to it that pretty much limit legal prostitution to call services, so there is a ways to go before we have a safe envrionment for sex workers.
You could more accurately rephrase that as “an image that they feel society finds acceptable”. Unless by “society” you mean weight-loss vendors, or by “curvy” you mean 5’6", 250 lb.
Heads up to foreign Dopers: You may or may not realize that everybody in this thread is having you on. For some reason, there is a widespead myth that prostitution is illegal in the United States. Nothing could be further from the truth! In fact, prostitution is so central to our culture that small brothels are conveniently attached to most restaurants, convenience stores and public facilities. Next time you’re in the U.S. and you want some action, just look for the nearest door marked “Women”! Or the door marked “Men,” according to your preference. 
Not necessarily. Smoking is legal but advertising for smoking is restricted…at leat in the US (prints ads = ok; broadcast media = not ok).
Point is just because a thing is legal to do does not necessarily equate to be legal to advertise.
The odd part is many prostitutes in the US DO advertise. In Chicago (where I live) pick up the Chicago Reader (the same folks who run this board) and you can find many ads for prostitutes. Of course they list themselves as “escorts” and tip-toe around anythingthat is overtly illegal but they are not really fooling anyone with that. Hell…skip the Chicago Reader…you can find ads for them in the Yellow Pages.
Bottom line our society seems to allow the existence of prostitutes without granting them any validity. To me that argues more strongly than anything else that it should be legalized. Unfortunately it is a non-starter with any politician so we are stuck with the status quo no matter how retarded.
I am a prostitute, a porn model, and a Ph.D. candidate working on my interests in linguistics and I think I can bring some experience and perhaps a bit of insight into this world. I am a gay male, well-educated, almost 30, and I would say that my childhood was a relatively joyous and happy time. I do not recall any molestation or abuse of any kind except from certain “trapped” males that all too often act as representatives for the hetero world. I grew up middle class, and don’t every really going without.
I began working in adult entertainment for many reasons, but for the purposes of this thread, let me just say that THE MONEY IS GREAT and I have the best job description of anyone I know " to have sex with all the hottest and most sought after young gay men of the gay porn world." I make in three hours, what most make in two weeks. Now, to be fair, I try to limit the amount of videos I do a month to between 1-3 (any more would be overexposing myself). I got to school part-time and am also a TA. I began “escorting” a year ago in order to capitalize on the name I have made for myself in porn. You won’t find me on any street corner nor in any bar or club- my clients call me and after several exchanges over the phone and through email, we both decided if we think it will work out and we either meet or do not. I have no interest in meeting clients for whom I am not suited and vice versa. My hourly rate is rather steep (between $300-500 depending on the city) and I require a minimum of a two-hour minimum on the weekends just to make sure my time isn’t wasted.
So, I make quite a bit for a bookish quasi intellectual language geek with a big dick, but as far as I’m concerned, I am doing nothing more than Jennifer Lopez or Brad Pitt do. They sell sex, in fact they often act out sex on camera and accept money for doing so. Porn models do in fact accept money in exchange for having sex, yet it is not considered prostitution? Odd. And how many of you are with a man or woman not so much because you feel you are soul mates but because you each give the other what he/she need? How many wives and girlfriends provide their partners with both sex and prestige/status in exchange for security, diamonds, clothing? In fact, the very symbol of “the institution of marriage,” the diamond ring, is nothing more than slipping your hooker a $300 tip so that he/she will see you again. And if how many of you have had sex with just anyone for pathetic reason? Most of you. Well, I decided that if I was going to be having sex so much, I might as well get paid for it. If you find any morale emptiness in my argument, I urge you to examine your own sexual/romantic relationships- you will soon discover the hooker within yourself.
Politicians may not be personally prudish, but their constituents generally don’t like to see them officially promoting positions that the constituents consider immoral.
As for your hypothesis that criminalization of prostitution correlates with political power for women, I don’t buy it. There were laws against prostitution even back in some pre-Independence American colonies, and they were frequent in the 19th century as well.
I am pretty much a doctrinaire Libertarian. Further I have been a client of prostitutes (legal and illegal) in Panama, Mexico, Bolivia, Paraguay, Brazil, Bahrain, Thailand and so on. I am a bit of an expert.
As I have grown older, and more mature, I now realize that prostitution is not a victimless crime. As a result I no longer support the industry.
Are there happy prostitutes who choose their job much as I have chosen mine? Sure, you bet, no doubt. On the other hand, the girls in Bahrain are basically being held as slave. The ones in Latin America are in little better situations. Thailand is just poor (although I understand the social mores are much different from most other places).
It is a brutal, nasty business. I would make the parallel to how I view the illicit drugs trade. Should it be legal? Probably. Should good people support it? Probably not.