I pit John Cage's " 4'33" "

Bingo! That’s what it all comes down to. :slight_smile:

I think what everybody in this thread mostly likes is arguing.

You know what they say-It takes two to tangle.

Actually it was all a publicity stunt. There was no real lawsuit.

Wow. BBQ Pit or not, I was expressing my own opinion of the piece identified in my O.P. I don’t recall attacking other people or saying that the fact that I call utter Emperor’s New Clothes on this piece means that anyone else’s opinion is not valid.

I’m Pitting this asscrack of a “composer” and his “piece” of non-compositional non-performance. I’m allowed to do that. I wasn’t attacking anyone for their point of view and if it seems I was, well that was not at all my point. I’m allowed to disagree if you post in here that you find this to be art, or whatever. I can disagree most aggressively with your point of view. It doesn’t mean I am trying to decide or dictate.

I’m also happy to pit the smugmuffins sitting in the audience, nodding wisely and smirking as they sit and enjoy…nothingness.

God damn.

The Dope has indeed changed.

Actually, that’s exactly what it means. The precise point of the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes is that all the people who were talking about how much they liked the Emperor’s clothes were liars, who were making up stories about how much they liked something that didn’t exist, out of fear of being perceived as being ignorant or stupid. That’s the literal moral of the story.

Hans Christian Anderson. What an asshole.

Wow! I can’t decide whether or not I’m disappointed, but thanks for the update.

Especially since the OP (whom I generally admire on the board) claimed to be steeped in music theory but had never heard of the most famous piece in the entire classical-cum-avant-garde canon?!?

Stanislaus pretty eloquently described his experience and specifically what he enjoyed about his experience. Based on his description, what he enjoyed did not equate to nothingness.

I don’t see how he comes off as a smugmuffin deserving to be Pitted.

Oh great. First I’m sane, and now I’m not even a smugmuffin. A person’s self esteem can really take a shredding round here.

“Hello, darkness, my old friend…”

But we like you ! :wink:

Aww, you guys.

But is it possible that some (even most) of the other people who have time for 4’33" aren’t simpering pseuds either, but are, like me, reasonable, reflective and ruggedly handsome?

Nope !!!

What you say before the ellipsis is contradicted by what you say after it.

Nah, this this the same “Abstract art is a scam!” garbage that’s been popping up in Cafe Society for years.

Basically there are a bunch of snobs (yourself included) who think that their aesthetic judgement trumps everyone else’s. So when they see a “smugmuffin” seeming to enjoy something that’s obviously “bullshit” they think that the “smugmuffin” can’t really be enjoying the “bullshit”. They’re just doing it to look cool, or smart, or sophisticated. They’re smirking poseurs.

Here’s the thing. It’s possible for people to honestly enjoy something you think is crap. They’re not pretending to like it to make themselves look good or make you feel stupid. They really do like it, and when you act like their honest interest is just posturing, you’re being an insulting jerk.

It is little known, but Cage composed a follow-up lieder, which was performed by Harpo Marx.

BTW, three pages on this old and well-known piece shows that Cage wins.

It’s not what’s being said, but what is NOT being said that’s important.

My goodness. Yes, thank you. I’m perfectly aware that it’s possible for people to honestly enjoy something I think is crap.

Here’s the thing. I think it’s great that they derive pleasure from such a situation, just as I think it’s great that I am permitted to Pit the steaming pile of pseudo-art known as " 4’33" ".

And, just so we are all crystal-clear here: I’m not pitting what I saw in the video linked in my O.P. because I wanted to be an insulting jerk. You think I crossed the Don’t Be A Jerk line, then send a PM to the board Moderators reporting my O.P. But don’t go Junior-Modding, calling me a jerk when I was simply pitting something I deemed Pit-Worthy.

I was in NO way attacking you for enjoying whatever it is you listen to or do not listen to. I was absolutely insulting the nitwits sitting there smugly, nodding knowingly, having listened to…exactly no music.

P.S. I love abstract art. This…this…thing I linked wasn’t abstract art.

That’s ‘cause abstract art is a visual medium. You could be blind as a bat and still fully experience (for better or worse) 4’ 33", and as you will have noted from the various performances of 4’ 33", it does not depend on any particular visual presentation.

You are contradicting yourself again. By making the declaration that it’s “pseudo-art”, a pretty much meaningless term, and calling those who actually understand and enjoy it “nitwits” and “smug”, it’s clear you do have a problem with people enjoying it.

I’ll just remain content that my life is made a tiny bit better by the existence of 4’33’', as it is by any art I like.