Used to be possible, but tuition increases make it almost impossible for a student to make enough money to pay for school.
You graduate with an educational mortgage.
Is this out-of-state school public or private? When I went to college (a private one), most of my grants were from the school, not outside scholarships nor government grants. The remainder was financed through loans (approx. $12K altogether for four years). This was in the late 1990s.
I am also confused about this reapplication thing. Aren’t Pell Grants based on the FAFSA? That doesn’t really change over the course of a few months. Why is she reapplying? How does the aid office explain the diminution? Have you or she called the financial aid office to negotiate her aid package? I knew several people in law school (a public one) who bumped up their awards considerably with a couple phone calls/emails.
Except for the fact that I was in a state school, everything you said here applies to me. And in addition to the work-study, I also had a plethora of extra jobs, including one that involved cleaning deep-fat fryers at 4:30 AM before the breakfast crowd arrived, and from which I would return to my dorm at 7:45 AM with barely enough time to get out of my oil-stunk clothes for 8:00 AM differential equations.
Diosa, I’m just saying that the system has changed so dramatically that people’s experience even five years ago is no longer a reliable guide. If you speak from recent experience, your data is just as valid as mine.
I haven’t “gone to” a CSU, but until last year I was teaching in them. The student body has a huge range, from brilliant students who could have gone anywhere in the country to the functionally illiterate. Yes, I am serious about that: only a few, but how did they get into college? In every single case, after completing the two-year community college and transferring. I only ever taught one class in the community colleges and I hope to God my experience there was not representative.
Further, I won’t derail the thread, but I’ll simply say that the ever-increasing workload meant that I simply could not give the students the education they deserved and were paying for, and most of my colleagues said the same. If you still got a great education, it was because of the people in your major department (either Herculean amounts of work or good long-range decisions or both).
Study well for the SAT/ACT. I got a National Merit Scholarship for 4 years to SMU. I stayed at home and saved Room & Board. I also took each semester off to intern in my field (Well near it; I liked computers but was too far into my B.S.E.E. to change). It took me 5 years on my 3 year degree program and I never had to get loans.
My wife got to go her first year to Baylor. She was infected by the entitled who complained if they didn’t have a new car for college. Her parent’s couldn’t afford more and she was pulled back home mad the next year. She had to go to the local community college. She saw all the hard working adults and kids who were there because they wanted to be there and they wanted to learn! She was so greatful to be returned to the Light Side of the Force. She said she got a much better education then.
Again, I was in college less than two years ago. Part of the reason I chose the school I did was in case my father decided to go back on his promise to pay my tuition for me- I wanted to make sure I could work my ass off and pay for my classes myself if I had to, all without incurring debt.
I worked full time in college and made sure I always had enough money in the bank account to pay for my next quarter’s expenses, just in case something happened.
It’s possible. It just isn’t possible at big name schools. All choices in life have trade offs and this one is no different.
A lot of the top tier schools do this - there are I think about 50 of them that give pretty much a free ride to anyone - some have pretty high income requirements as a cut off (Stanford has some sort of fairly high household income). But competition for those schools is tough - top 25% on the SATs isn’t going to cut it - top 90% isn’t going to cut it without special circumstances. Betting your kid’s education on “they are going to be really smart or really good at football” probably isn’t a good way to ensure they get an education.
The second time I went to school was very recently - I worked full time and went to Metropolitan State University. Full time resident undergrad tuition there is under $6500 a year. Its a four year college, certainly not the best four year college in the world. That’s coverable with student loans - and won’t end up costing you much more than a loan on new car - or if your parents had saved, its $1200 a year starting when you were born - without any time value of money calculations - $100 a month. And two years of community college and transferring would be less. CLEP a few courses and cut a few more dollars off.
MOST of the people I went to college with that time around were taking six to eight years to get their degrees. They worked full time and paid for college out of their pockets. About half were first or second generation immigrants - a quarter did not speak English as their first language. Many of them didn’t buy the books, they went to the library or shared books between them. Most of them were adults - over 25.
Pell Grants (and all federal student aid) are now directly administered by the Department of Education, via university financial aid departments. You still fill out a FAFSA, but the school doesn’t have the authority to modify federal aid awards.
Right, which is why I am curious why there have been three different award amounts (each revoking the last, I presume) in the space of what sounds like no more than six months. FAFSA data doesn’t change in that time, it’s pegged to the tax year most recently ended.
Additionally, the schools have money of their own (even public ones). That money, naturally, they can dole out largely according to how they see fit.
I’ve got to agree with Chessie on this one.
Unless I get to pit the Government for not buying me a new car every year.
They might, if you agree to kill people you’ve never met whenever asked. From what I gather in this thread, really the best way for the non-rich to obtain a proper education.
Isn’t California part of the Western States Undergrad Exchange program. Look into that or don’t go out of state. That’s my advice.
Utter bollocks. Live at home if you can. If you can’t, you get a shithole apartment, share it with 4-6 asshole roommates, eat ramen and canned soup, and possibly take longer than 4 years to graduate. Books can be borrowed or purchased used online. Work wherever you can. Work nights (the pay is better).
Its not easy or pleasant, and your social life will be non-existent, but it can be done. Even in today’s economy.
I’m glad you’re here. I’ve been meaning to ask where financial aid is available at clown college.
That or loans or scholarships. Scholarships have been ruled out for this thread, but I don’t think loans should be off the table. Taking out loans to go to a mediocre school is probably a horrible idea - but if you can get into a really good school and you choose a career oriented major, the payoff is solid.
Now my experience was taking out massive loans for grad school, but the only reason I had to was because I chose liberal arts for undergrad (fortunately, in-state tuition was reasonable back then and the amount of loans I needed was small). So yes, my student loans are more than most people’s mortgages - but so what? The payoff is worth it many times over. If I had to make the decision now as to whether to skip school or to take out huge loans, it would be an easy call.
The OP asked about 40 grand in loans - I would take that each year to go to the right school. I would note, however, that you really need to analyze what school you’re talking about - especially given the job market (and the forseeable market) - at the moment, I’m not convinced that going to any school outside of a top 50 makes any sense unless it’s free.
This.
Community colleges are a lifesaver. I wish we had something like this for advanced degrees. Try finding grants and scholarships for an MBA. Nothing but loans available and I am not willing to take on the debt.
Hard to say. Liberty University turned down my application.
Again, right on the money.
In my classes this semester, i had a few students who could comfortably slot into a senior research seminar or even a graduate seminar at an elite private university. I had other students—more than a few—who weren’t ready for Grade 10.
Apart from demonstrating the wide range of abilities in the CSU system, this discrepancy also has some detrimental effects on teaching. If you teach to the level of the best students, you’ll end up leaving behind a significant (i.e., considerably more than half) portion of the class. If you teach to the bottom, the rest barely get an education at all, and the best students get bored out of their mind. It can be quite a balancing act.
There’s another workload-related issue, but one that focuses on the students themselves rather than on the teachers, and it’s something that is a result of the way in which the CSU fee structure is organized.
Students in the CSU system pay either a part-time fee or a full-time fee. The part time fee, for 6 units or fewer per term, is $2,454 per academic year. The full-time fee, for students in more than 6 units per term, is $4,230 per academic year. Cite (Figures are for 2010-2011; they will almost certainly be higher, possibly much higher, in 2011-2012.)
Most CSU degrees require about 120 units to graduate, meaning that, if you want to graduate in 4 years, you need 15 units per semester over the 4 years of the degree. That five 3-unit classes per semester (most, but not all, classes are 3 units).
The fee structure means that you pay exactly the same amount in fees for taking 3 classes (9 units) per semester as you do for taking 18 units (6 classes) per semester). Recognizing this, many students sign up for as many classes as possible, trying to cram their degrees into a shorter period of time and thus save themselves money. It is, at one level, a perfectly rational economic decision.
The problem is that many of these students work, have other outside obligations, or simply are not smart enough nor sufficiently prepared to cope with 6 proper university courses at one time. As a consequence, students who take on an excessive workload often fail one or more of their classes, and have to take them again.
Now, you might say, “So what? It’s only their own money that they’re wasting,” but that’s not the whole story. A significant chunk of these students’ education is subsidized by the taxpayers, so every time a student fails a class and has to take it again, it costs the student more money and it costs the taxpayer more money. Moreover, in a time of budget cuts and class reductions and full classes, every student who fails a class and has to enroll in it again is effectively taking a seat from a student who also needs the class. In the long run, the attempt to cram in more classes each semester ends up costing the student and the state more money, and also makes life more difficult for students and instructors in a system where class space it at a premium.
I had a student this semester taking 18 units, or 6 classes. Of those 6 classes, 4 were upper-division history classes. Of those, 1 was a capstone research seminar requiring lots of reading and a major research paper. All his other history classes also required quite a lot of reading, as well as research papers. This is simply too much for all but the most capable and committed students.
The student did poorly in my class, mainly, i believe, because his workload was just too great and something had to give. Now, because my class was part of his major and his grade in the class wasn’t good enough, he’ll have to take another equivalent class, costing himself and the California taxpayers more money, and taking up a seat that could have gone to someone else.
I think the CSU system should charge its fees on a per-unit basis. So, if you take 18 units, it should cost you twice as much as if you take 9 units. If you’re taking 15 units, and want to add another class to make it 18, then you need to pay more money. That way, students will think twice before tacking another class onto an already-full schedule. At the very least, the university needs to be far more rigorous in setting limits on the number of units students can take at one time.
Taking out SMALL loans to a mediocre state school probably isn’t a horrible idea if you do a career oriented major. To use a Minnesota example, St. Cloud State is no Harvard, but working part time during the school year and full time over the summers and loans should see you through with less than $25k in loans - and an Accounting degree from there won’t get you into a partner track in a Big Four firm, but it won’t be sneezed at for most entry level accounting jobs. Taking out $30k a year in private loans so that you can go to a small liberal arts college that no one has ever heard of is probably a horrible idea.
To add to mhendo’s point, it is simply a fact that the more students work, the less time they have to put into their education. They cut corners on reading, attending lectures, and interaction with their peers which is actually a huge part of what a college education ideally gives you. There is a real difference between work-study jobs, which take into account a student’s schedule, and off-campus work, where they don’t care about your final exams. Working is one thing, but a lot of my CSU students were in the impossible position of working 20 or even 40 hours a week while trying to be a full-time student, not to mention family issues. While I admire what they did accomplish, I don’t recommend it as a great way to go through college.