How do you think people access services, they just head on down to the local food stamp office, then the local HUD office for some free rent, and on over to the gummint bank for some cash? These services are coordinated through the Department of Social Services. Even if the office for a service is located in a building other than the Department of Social Services, it’s still the through the same agency.
The point of the post was to dispel the myth that people don’t work and live on welfare. Have you looked at the average food stamp allotment given to a family of three in various states? In Alabama it is $277.00 a month. With the exception of disability, there are no government handouts that permit a person or family to live without working. These the facts.
That’s pretty much it, minus the caricature aspect.
That’s not correct. (In fact the government sometimes gives some of them to private non-profit agencies.)
Yet again: there are any number of social programs. You can’t point to the dollar amount of just one of them and pretend that this is the level of support a person “on welfare” gets. (In addition to the aforementioned rent, utilities & medical care, food itself is also frequently subsidized by the WIC program.)
You might have also bolded some of the exceptions.
But we decided as a nation we don’t want to live the way Europeans do. Why must we live the way they do? I say again, there is no human right to live in the United States. Or Australia (try sneaking into there and see what happens).
The question was whether our venerated ancestors all learned English, dammit!, when they got here. This study set out to see if that was true. It is not.
What exactly is offered through private organizations and charity? Child Care? pre K?
Well, you are not willing to engage in honest discourse. You offer no evidence to support your claims and expect everyone else to do the heavy lifting. Believe a false reality propagated by the wingnuts on cable TV and blogs. It is clear this entire exchange has been fucking pointless.
The study proved that if you lived in an isolated rural community, where almost everyone spoke the same foreign language as you did, you did not necessarily learn English. That is not typical of the situation of immigrants at that time or later. (It might have been typical of immigrants to Wisconsis at that time, but that’s not our discussion.)
HUD vouchers, for example. (The one in my hometown is, as it happens.)
Actually, the fact is that I base my position here on pretty much first hand knowledge. I know very well literally dozen and dozens of people who are or have been supported by these programs over the years, (& a few who have worked for social agencies administering them) and I am extremely well acquainted with the practical details of how these things work.
The type of things you say are impressive to people who only know of these matters casually, based on what they’ve read in articles or in propaganda put out by advocates of one side or another. But for me, it’s like telling me that in America you drive on the left side of the street.
Not the type of knowledge that lends itself to cites, even if I had the interest. But fortunately, this understanding makes it easy to refute the misleading claims put out by people like yourself, as I’ve done here.
Bullshit. I’m guessing you were born here with certain unalienable rights endowed by your creator, right? You believe that all men are created equal, right? Or does none of that apply to anyone born outside an imaginary line?
“Only those are good citizens of the intellectual world who give to every other human being every right that they claim for themselves, and only those are traitors in the great realm of thought who abandon reason and appeal to force.” - Robert Ingersoll
“You shall not wrong an alien, neither shall you oppress him, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.” - Exodus 22:21
“Foreigners living among you will be like your own people. Love them as you love yourself, because you were foreigners living in Egypt.” - Leviticus 19:34
It’s not our discussion? There is no “OUR” in that discussion. It was in response to billfish678, which you obviously missed. Cite that second wave immigrants did not live in enclaves where their daily lives were not conducted in their native tongue? Remember, billfish678 didn’t say only rural immigrants didn’t learn English. His belief was that they all learned English or they suffered. Can you show this is true? Can you show that not living in areas where everyone spoke the same foreign language as you was not typical?
The study was cited by liberty3701 (post #232) and I responded to him. I did not address you. If you feel that my comments don’t relate to your separate exchange with billfish678, you can refrain from participating in this exchange and stick to haranguing billfish. But don’t jump into an exchange between two other people and castigate someone because comments that were not directed to you and didn’t refer to you fail to refute your position.
I’m the poster who posted reference to that site first, dumbass. Remember, you tried to refute liberty by saying a) that it had already been referenced (by me, dumbass) and that b) it didn’t prove what you had requested? God do you have any reading comprehension skills at all? YOU brought it up that it was not relevant to the discussion, but you were wrong as to which discusssion it was referencing. Then you admit you haven’t even read the damn thing, so how would you know? You yourself are referencing converstations/interactions that don’t have anything to do with you. I mean, if you can’t keep straight what’s going on in multi-page thread… Perhaps this is not the message board for you.
Oh, and by the way, stop stating opinions and then when posters respond to you say that what you said wasn’t what you said. Dumbass.
God, what the hell am I doing getting hopped up in an immigration thread. Like facts are goign to change the minds of people who refer to human beings as “illegals”. Or don’t want to consider facts, period.
Fuck it. I’m done with posting to this thread (like anybody cares) unless I can post some facts, in accordance with my personal standards about immigration threads. Sigh. Weak I am.
this is not true. I did mention that it had been previously cited. The refutation followed.
That’s true. What of it?
It wasn’t relevant to the discussion with the person who cited it, and to whom I directed my comments.
This has not occurred.
In general, this seems to be generating more heat than light on your end. I don’t anticipate responding further unless you actually say something substantive.
I’m the not idiot in this exchange. And I DID give you the reason why your trite, platitudinous argument is empty. Please reread.
Actually, you probably don’t mean “literally”. Regardless, their contribution to “building the Southwest” amounts to knowing the native plants and how to get water out of a cactus. What the fuck did they “build” of any significance? Just look at the 13 Colonies in say, 1775, and the Southwest.
Absolutely unbelievable. Definitely one of the most astoundingly stupid and ignorant things to EVER appear on these boards. Or ANY board. Congratulations.
Again, unbelievable. Maybe you’re correct in that they didn’t know about farming “this” soil. But that’s because they never encountered it. Big fucking deal. Your mining claim makes even less sense as a “point.”
Do you bother reading the words on the page? The status of the illegals caused fair market wages to be artificially suppressed. Remove that and farmers and other groups would have to raise wages until the jobs were attractive to workers. THAT determines the true value of a task.
I deny them that to which they have no right to. Those jobs belong to Americans. And with the rising unemployment rate all jobs are becoming more attractive. You have heard of supply and demand haven’t you? If it turns out we do have a shortage of workers, I’m all for starting a guest worker program and expanding legal immigration. Until then, how do you say “Stay the fuck out” in Spanish?
I guess I’m the one who doesn’t think embracing a fallacy of the masses is anything to announce to the world. But hey, you’re different. Again, if you think your cite is credible and unbiased your brain is turned off.
Oh, your attempt to paint those who oppose illegal immigration as racist is also bullshit. Are you not aware that there are many Mexicans and other Hispanics who feel that way?
The phrase you cite is a philosophical statement as to where rights come from. It has nothing to do with the concept of statehood. Do they come from a King, a man, in which case they can be taken away as easily as they are granted? Or do they come from something or someplace that exists on a higher realm, in which case it is not the provence of any man to grant them or retract them. Then as you move down that same document you find the phrase “To secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”.". So the government, which you’ve elected to represent you, is there to ensure that those rights are not trampled upon or threatened.
Again, this has little to do with the concept of statehood, or citizenship, which predates the DofI. It’ a fair an open question to ask if and how someone who resides outside the state’s boundaries can join that state. But the final decision must reside with the state. If not, their is no boundary that defines the state and those who wander in may not agree with its laws are seek to do it harm. So immigration processes pop up to allow people to be part of a society other than that into which they were born. Follow those steps and you will be welcomed. Skirt those steps and sneak in and you’re here illegally and deserve to be immediately removed. You certainly are not entitled to any of the benefits of that society.
We are willing to extend to others all those rights we enjoy. IF they come here LEGALLY. Would you treat a guest in your house the same way you treat a person who broke in?
This applies beautifully to LEGAL aliens.
And still with your empty bullshit platitudes. Countries exist. And that is a good thing, as it allows a people to self-determine the type of society they want to live in. Countries’ borders, their sovereignty, needs to be respected. why is it that you have so little respect for laws?
Now, how about a real argument as to what you think should be done and why instead of these bumper stickers you keep serving up to ill effect.
Wooooowwwww, just wow. You know nothing, guy, NOTHING about that of which you speak. You’re a jerk who’s right because you say you’re right. You think Anglos knew how to build irrigation systems in the desert? You really believe that so strongly that to say otherwise is “Absolutely unbelievable. Definitely one of the most astoundingly stupid and ignorant things to EVER appear on these boards. Or ANY board”? PLEASE explain that before going any further. I can’t wait to hear this one. I can’t wait to hear how people who worried about how to keep their plants dry magically knew how to effectively harness the precious little water in the desert to keep their crops alive. I guess god divinely imparted that wisdom on them because they are the pure, chosen people, right?
You think hispanics built nothing in the southwest? Holy shit, man. And you’re calling me stupid? You’re blinded by your hate for those who aren’t like you.
Why, because you say it does? You’re one cocky, hateful, presumptuous prick, you know that?
You don’t know shit from shinola, much less what I mean. Take the difference between what was empty land thousands of years ago and what is today “the southwestern United States.” They built that. Literally. Still do today, in fact. Go look at the guys hammering nails in roofs around here, or working on the canals, or paving roads. Hispanic.