http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/05/22/immigrant.tuition.ap/index.html
"Oregon may be about to join a growing number of states that are offering cheaper, in-state college tuition rates to illegal immigrants in a move supporters say will help them become productive, taxpaying members of society. Opponents say the idea will only encourage illegal immigration. "
Good idea or bad?
IMHO it’s a bad idea. Why are we trying to educate people that aren’t supposed to be here and giving them incentives for breaking the law? It’s hard as hell to get a poor child into college nowadays. Why don’t we focus on our OWN people and get them (the Illegal immigrants) on a bus headed for home? Our kids need education and jobs which are being taken by these people that don’t have a right to said items. Let them go back to their home countries and apply for residency to the US before they come and take a job or education that could help an AMERICAN feed his family. I’m tired of reading in the paper and seeing the news about our 15000 FAMILIES homeless because the job daddy/mommy had was moved to Mexico or taken by an illegal immigrant. Keep our jobs HERE and give them to AMERICANS. Help out future generations feed themselves by educating them and allowing them to go thru college. It should be a RIGHT given to all Americans NOT the lawbreakers. Don’t they have schools in their OWN countries? :dubious:
You know, I’ve always understood and favored (although that mey be too strong a word; at least, I do not oppose) the USA’s tacit policy of not actively hunting down otherwise harmless illegal immigrants and deporting them. It’s a waste of resources, etc. But what I don’t understand is, if we know someone is in this country illegally, why don’t we deport them/their family? I guess I just always assumed that if officials found out you were in the US illegally, they reported you. Maybe some of the immigration-savvy types who drop into this thread can help me: why is this not our policy? Should it be our policy?
I don’t know why we don’t deport them, Melandry but I can tell you that it’s a hell of a lot wasier being an illegal than it is to actually go through the process of becoming a legal citizen. Welbywife and I have been at it for more than four years, and it’s nothing but more red tape and more delays. My wife is here on a temporary visa until they decide to give her a permanent one, so not only can she not go to school as an in-state resident, she can’t get a loan to do so.
I know a lot of illegals who went to my state school. I believe the idea is that if you are aresident you are paying taxes.
This is just crazy. It’s one thing to admit we don’t have the resources to track down every illegal, but if you know someone is the country illegally, they should be deported. And how in the hell does it make sense to explicilty codify into law that illegals would not be deported? I’m all for state’s rights, but isn’t this one of those times when it is a federal matter?
They’ve just made this the law in Illinois as well. As a result, students from Indiana or Wisconsin continue to pay much higher out-of-state tuition to attend IL schools, but students from Mexico City pay in-state rates. How fucked up is that? It’s like topsy-turvy world in the old Funhouse.
Ladies and gentlemen,
I have very mixed feelings on this subject; it seems bizarre that my clients, who are here legally and many of whom have been in the green card process for years, are not eligible for in-state tuition until they actually become permanent residents, but people here illegally are. For that matter, I paid out-of-state tuition at a grad school in a neighboring state, at a rate which subsidized in-state students to the tune of 25%.
However, I ask you all to keep in mind that in all news I’ve heard on this topic, the tuition break would apply to a very limited subset of undocumented immigrants: those who were brought here by their parents as children, and have graduated from a U.S. high school after being enrolled for three years or more in U.S. schools. In some cases, they have been here since very early childhood, or even since infancy, and are as culturally American as most kids who were born here. Are you going to punish kids for the misdeeds of their parents? Are you going to force them into a life of marginalization?
I think this thread belongs in GD.
Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal
So the “reward” for breaking the law for three years or more should be a subsidized college education?
**milroyj, ** undocumented immigrants pay taxes, too. Sales taxes, use taxes, highway tolls, and yes, many are employed on the books (either by employers who never ask for docs, or with false docs) and have income taxes withheld, but are terrified of filing returns and getting the refunds for which they would otherwise qualify. And yet their kids aren’t eligible for many of the services that those taxes pay for.
It is a principle of immigration law that any time illegally accrued in the U.S. by a minor under the age of 18 is not considered to be the child’s “fault,” and he/she is not penalized for it later.
Somehow I’m guessing you will be back in this thread tonight/tomorrow; if I don’t respond, it’s not because I’m ignoring you, but because I’m moving tomorrow and have to finish packing. (I’m finishing my dinner break right now.)
um…
it is in GD.
Illegal aliens pay taxes, yes, but to the same extent as legal residents? Sales tax applies to all, as do user fees, highway tolls etc. On the other hand, I beg to differ when it comes to income tax, since illegals are often paid in cash, i.e., day laborers, restaurant employees, etc. And, since this thread was originally about education, in IL at least, schools are funded by property taxes. How many illegals own real estate (and pay the property taxes)? More often, they rent. Sure, some of the price of rent includes the owner’s property taxes, but I doubt it’s equivalent to a legal resident’s property taxes, especially when you have 3 immigrant families illegally living in one $500/month apartment.
**
I agree with not holding a child responsible for the actions of their parents, but where does one draw the line? It used to be, we’d hear stories of mothers crossing the borders to have children in US hospitals so that the child would be a citizen. Are you implying that they don’t even have to do that? In other words, as long as a child is snuck across the border before they’re 18, they’re entitled to all benefits of citizenship? (well, not all, but at least the financial ones, like tuition reduction?)
Does Illinois have a statewide property tax? If not, then no, state universities are not paid for with local property taxes. You’re thinking of local school districts.
Even if they are, in many states, commercial property taxes are typically far more reflective of actual property values than single-family homes, due to homestead exemptions or senior exemptions or any number of other breaks given to owner-occupied single-family properties. This has been my experience in Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Missouri, New Mexico and Arkansas. And it’s not “some” of the property taxes that are paid by renters, it is all of it. At least, that’s how me and every other person involved in commercial real estate deals with it.
Furthermore, I’d love to hear some specifics on illegal immigrant contributions to state (not local, nor federal) tax bases vis-a-vis native born citizens. My sneaking suspicion is that the regressive nature of sales taxes and excise taxes more than make up for any deficiencies in state income taxes. Of course, this varies depending on the precise structure of any given state’s tax structure.
Many criminals pay taxes. I’m sure David Westerfield (guilty of killing the little girl in San Diego) payed plenty of taxes. Now that was a gross exageration, but I wanted to make a point. When does whether a person has paid taxes ever come into play when determining if that person has committed a crime or not?
The term “undocumented immigrants”, I fear, betrays a certain political agenda. They are only “undocumented” in the sense that a back robber has made an “unauthorized withdrawal” from a bank. Had they tried to get the proper documents, they would either be a on a working visa or back home in their native country.
Well, I supposed it’s better to have smart illegal immigrants than stupid ones. What the Hell, let 'em in.
One of my best friends was an illegal immigrant. His parent brought him over from Brazil when he was in middle school. He learned English within two years and earned a 4.00 in high school. As soon as he was old enough not to endanger his family, he sought out legal residentcy.
Should this kid be denied residency rates? He is a resident of California. He went through California schools and will continue to be a Californian for the rest of his life. He paid California income and sales taxes. He is an intellegent and generally law abiding man, who had no choice as to where his parents took him, but sought to do his best in the situation he was in. It would serve no good for this kid not to get an education, and to add to the poverty he was raised in. It would serve no purpose at all.
Out-of-state tuition isn’t meant as some sort of punishment. It was designed to keep people who don’t pay taxes in that state- and whos children are unlikely to stay and contribute to the welfare of that state- from getting a break on tuition. But these kids ARE residents of this state, and will generally stay there. We’re not talking about giving them free money. We are talking about counting the years that they lived in their state towards their residentsy. These kids are not outsiders who are going to take their education and run. They have been in the state for at least three years, and will likely remain in the state.
FWIW, my friend didn’t end up going to a four year college. He took one semester of English as a Second Language in high school, and so he didn’t have the manditory four years of English they required. Pretty insane, huh?
Where are his parents? Are they still in the country illegally?
Perhaps he should locate his parents, return to Brazil, make a fine living there and, if he wishes, apply for legal immigration to the US. What’s wrong with that scenario?
Perhaps because America is his home? He’s not some freaky semi-human. Illegal immigrants are normal humans. They arn’t all living in hovels and doing day labor while figuring out how to avoid taxes and not have to learn English. Mostly they are striving to get a decent job, buy a home, and live the “American Dream” which characterizes their reason for wanting to be here in the first place.
Anyway, his parents are now permanent residents. He is a skilled tradesman and she is a nurse. They own a nice house and are raising their American-born daughter up well. It’s not like they wanted to be illegal. They got documents as soon as they were able to without being deported.
Illegal immigrants don’t come here because they don’t like America. They usually come here because it is the only future they can see for their kids. While it is always wrong to break the law, etc. I think we can all see why people would break the law (which is more of a procederal law than a criminal one- there is a difference between robbing a bank and not filling out the census form) when it comes to protecting their kids, and hopefully we’d have some sympathy for those kids who had no choice in the matter anyway. If sympathy is too much to ask, at least we ought to recognize on a practical level that these kids arn’t going to disappear, and when it comes to having an educated or an uneducated populice, I know which one I’d choose.
Even:
Please show me in my post where I said your friend was a freaky semi-human. Or that he didn’t like America. Or that he was a day laborer or didn’t speak English. I have never even hinted at any of those things, so they have nothing to do with my argument.
I have a friend who’s very poor. He couldn’t afford go to college so his parents stole some money so that he would be able to. They stole it from a very rich person who will never miss it. My firend has a 4.0 average in college right now. But the police just discovered that his parents stole the money, and they want him to give it back. If that happens, my friend will have to drop out of college. Should we bend the law and let my friend keep the money?
Hey, if I was a desperately poor Mexican I might very well try to cross the boarder illegally, too. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if I got sent back when I got caught.
You are advocating an open boarder policy for your friend. Are you advocating that for ALL people who might wish to enter the US? I’m not talking about only the folks who are already here, but anyone who would come here in the future. Or do special rules only apply to your friends?
Wait a minute. The requirement for paying reduced tuition is that you are a resident of that state. So if you are , in fact, a resident, you should get reduced tuition. I can’t see why other factors should be taken into account but if you want you could say reduced tuition is not available to those who have broken any laws or otherwise not fulfilled all ther civic obligations. Therefore reduced tuition rates will not be available to:
So, where do you draw the line? And Why there?