Nitpick: The article suggests that the proposed extension of in-state tuition to illegal immigrants would not be limited just to those who came here as kids.
This isn’t a “but I want to walk on the grass!” type law break. In many cases it’s a “I’m too poor to afford food in my home country so I’ll take my chances here” type law break.
Generally Mexicans aren’t genocidal smallpox infested maniacs like the American forebearers were.
No, because isnt this one of most peoples main beefs about it?
People seem to have two main beefs about illegals.
First, they are, by definition, breaking the law.
Secondly, they are getting their money for nothing and their chicks for free to both exagerate and give a nod to MTV.
IF these illegals arent paying their fair share INTO the system thats giving a good rate for INSTATE tuition, then other LEGAL residents ARE carrying an ADDITIONAL financial load.
IF that is true and these folks are here illegally to boot, I can certainly see why that would chap some people’s ass.
So, taxes and money sure as heck are part of the debate IMO.
If the state was just deciding “hey, wanna come to our colleges and pay outa state rates like everyone else”, I bet 90 percent of the heartburn would go away for most people".
A few disjointed points:
It bothers me that people think that because they are born in the USA they are somehow entitled to a standard of living in the top 5% the world. This sense of entitlement sickens me, and it sickens me even more when I see these entitled people look down on people desperately struggling for a better life. If you can’t be out some uneducated illegal immigrant that doesn’t even speak English for a job then that’s your fault, not the immigrants. It’s inexcusable for someone with access to the American education system to even be in competition with an illegal immigrant.
It annoys me that people don’t comprehend the benefit we get from illegal immigrants. I get my burgers flipped for cheap, and some immigrant gets a chance at a better life. It should be win freaking win, and it is except for those people I talked about in the paragraph above.
This punish the child for the sins of the parents pisses me off as well. Why should some teenager who knows no other country but the U.S. be booted out because he came here, through no fault of his own, at the age of 2? Why should they be set adrift and denied benefits of what is their home country.
It annoys me that people don’t see the pattern of immigration. It goes uneducated immigrant --> Educated hard working children --> Average American children. The 2nd generation immigrants are typically assimilated and much more motivated in education/career (since their parents never got the chance to have either). The 3rd generation of immigrants are fully assimilated and virtually indistinguishable from 10th generation Americans.
But just because there aren’t enough slots, that does not mean they have the right to enter our country willy-nilly. Now I think legal immigration needs to be revamped, and a guest-worker program put in place, but until more slots are created, those people have no right—ZERO—to decide to sneak in here. A country has a right to set it’s own immigration policy and enforce it. Period.
That’s not really true. “Not enough slots” means that “slots” do exist, that they are part of the equation. It means that one might have to wait for slots next year, or the year after. “No legal means” says that legal immigration is an impossibility. Not the same thing. “Effectively” or otherwise.
Oh, please. Just because we don’t throw the door open for everyone who wants to come here doesn’t mean we aren’t a welcoming country to immigrants. And you might take into account the U.S. when the statue was erected and now. There have been times in our history when it behooved us to encourage immigration. and there are times when the need to do so isn’t there. It is right for us to adjust our immigration policy to serve the needs of the country at a particular time.
Which is why we need to lock down the borders completely. We can then allow in 10 a year or 10 million, with each of them being properly screened.
Well, I don’t really agree with that concept, but regardless, it doesn’t address the problem I pointed out. It’s not going to be possible to completely 100% prevent illegal immigration. No matter what barriers we throw up, some number of people are going to figure out a way around them. And once they’re here, some of them are going to become sick, and we need to deal with that intelligently.
You might also want to consider that your dad was willing to go through the process of immigrating here legally in - what, 1960, or thereabouts? The process has likely changed greatly since then. Were he trying to come here today, he might not have the same options for legal entry, which may influence his opinion on illegal entry.
What is your opinion on the steps we should take to know who is coming in. Are you happy with what is happening now? When the great waves of immigrants came in through Ellis Island, each of them was checked for health issues. Those who might have been a danger were sent back. Now, we have a border where people are regularly crossing it. How do we ensure that we keep those with communicable diseases out? It seems you’re fine with letting them in and letting them—no, hoping—they take advantage of our healthcare system. Is that right?
Of course, you are correct that that is a possibility. But you must grant that there are people who do chose to NOT break the law and sneak in here illegally. That animal does exist, and it appears that Bricker the Elder should be assumed to fall into that group. Small point, but still…
Anything is possible.
However, my dad found a six-year-old error when he was redeeming savings bonds and fought with the bank manager for several days before winning his points – and losing about $75, since the error had not been in his favor.
He was scrupulously honest. It’s extremely difficult for me to imagine circumstances in which he would have chosen to break the law to live here.
Two of my grandparents legally immigrated from Sicily.
My neighborhood is overwhelmingly Hispanic nowadays. When my two American-born grandparents lived in this house, it was a completely white Anglo Saxon neighborhood. Things change.
However, the Hispanics that I talk to (and usually I do tend to talk to Hispanics, because that’s who are around me) that are here legally are infuriated at illegal immigrants. They say that the illegals give ALL Hispanics a bad name, and cause a heightened distrust of Hispanics, whether they’re here legally or not. They want the illegal immigrants to go back home, and get it right.
I’m sure that the legal immigration process is hideously complicated and expensive, and I believe that this is an area where we should focus our efforts. I don’t think that we are obligated to take in every immigrant. I think that we have a right to say who we will take in, and how many of them. And I think that we have the right and even the duty to decline to provide incentives for illegal immigrants to make the journey here, and then profit while they stay here. Our first concerns should be for our own citizens and legal immigrants. While I have sympathy for the kids, I really don’t think it’s their fault, I think that maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation if their parents had followed the law. I think it’s grossly unfair for the illegal kids to get a state subsidized education.
Yes, it’s grossly unfair that some people are born in countries that are poor, corrupt, and have few prospects. However, this is life. I think that these countries, instead of encouraging illegal immigration to the US, would be better served if they took all these hardworking, highly motivated people and used them to better the native country. I recognize that I would never have been born had Grandma and Grandpa stayed in Sicily, but again, that’s life.
While we’re throwing analogies around, I’d like to point out that I have all kinds of sympathy for homeless cats. However, I don’t adopt or feed every homeless cat I come across. I know that my family can accommodate three cats at any one time, and so I have set a maximum of three permanent cats in the Bodoni household. If I allowed every stray cat that crossed my path to live in my house, I would soon become one of those people you read about in the paper, the ones with hundreds of cats in the house, with cat food and cat shit piled knee-high. I can take care of three cats, and keep them fed and clean, and the house fairly clean. People are not cats, but limits are limits. We have to recognize that we DO have to set limits in every aspect. Every new person who moves into an area will have an impact on the environment. We need some areas for housing, some for infrastructure, and some for growing/raising food. When the Statue of Liberty was erected, we thought that America could absorb many more people, and at the time, it could. However, we are starting to find that our population should be kept within limits. We can’t absorb everyone else in the world, unless, of course, we wish to start annexing other nations.
Yup. The article does seem to be focusing on the kids of illegal immigrants, and really, they’re a seperate group to illegal immigrants themselves.
Question: do the children of legal immigrants pay in-state tuition fees?
Oh yeah, kids who’ve grown up in the US should definitely be sent ‘back’ to a country they barely remember.
You sound proud of not having any empathy. Have you sought psychiatric help? If not, you should.
But it does focus on the kids.
As i said, from the point of view of the impoverished Mexican would-be immigrant, it’s a distinction without a difference.
It doesn’t matter what agency is responsible for the program. If it is a government program, there will be data. Usually, someone, somewhere analyzes the data for a journal or policy paper.
I don’t understand the point. If government aid depends on income, how can the aid be considered income to determine eligibility?
AFDC doesn’t exist, so those statistics aren’t relevant. Please point me in the direction of these other programs that pay people’s rent and utilities. I am just asking you or anyone to show me the money.
You are projecting a personally held belief onto the entire population. I am not lazy. Are you lazy?
You are saying that undocumented immigrants are lazy in spite of the fact they work hard, and their children grow up to be lazy although they observed hard working parents. Are undocumented workers deeply flawed genetically or what? This seems to be what you are suggesting.
Why can’t children in lower socioeconomic situations aspire to be a CEO? Is the U.S. suddenly a cast system? ESL is taught in schools, so what other reasons prevent these children from achieving?
Thank you for this post. People not familiar with the process should understand the cost and hoops involved. The new citizenship test should be a national embarrassment.
I don’t think people need to worry too much about immigrants. I doubt people will want to continue immigrating to the U.S.
Legally? No. But as a practical matter, yes. I know of at least two cases of educated middle class workers who were actually undocumented. An employer is not required (except in certain cases) to verify documents, it is a matter of “good faith”. It’s not like it’s unheard of to present a fake social security card, and let’s face it, if you’re educated and middle class, there’s even less suspicion. Further, I have never heard of an ICE raid on an accounting firm or the like. It’s very very likely an undocumented college-educated immigrant could and would work.