Considering the “skill” of his arguments, I think Rael may be looking toward that history, not back on it.
-Joe
Well played.
But I think he is actually in the midst of it. It’s all so significant, dude, ya know? Genesis holds the key to Life and modern American politics. Blow yer mind, dude…
See? That’s part of the problem here. You and Obama are teh smartz, and you’re going to “give” us the government that we need? Snort.
Do carry on with that attitude though, it will really, really help your side in November.
I kind of get where you’re going here, but shouldn’t you think you can do better if you’re running for president? Aren’t you hoping to improve government in some way? We may disagree as to how government should be improved (pretty seriously, if I read your other posts correctly) but it seems odd to me to cluck at someone saying that they hope to “give you” a better government.
I mean, it’s not like McCain is saying “hey, you guys are doing OK, we’ll keep the government the way it is” or even “liberals have some pretty good ideas about government so we should emulate them”. He’s saying “I believe I’m right, and goddamnit I’m going to make things better for you whether you like it or not”. As he should be.
I don’t think Rael is a “selfish little prick”, but his idea of government seems like a bad idea to me, and I’ll work against his will based on the idea that I think it’s better for him and people like him, even if it’s not what they want. That’s the reality we find ourselves in in a representative government. I have to live under the ideas of people who don’t agree with me, as well. It happens.
**Carol’**s right, McCain has electrolytes. We’re doomed.
You haven’t been paying attention. It really will help us in November. You paleoconservatives are a quaint but dwindling minority. Right or wrong, more people now believe in bigger government social programs, more regulation of industry run amok, and increased taxation of those perceived to be making obscene profits. Sorry to be the one to tell you the pendulum has swung, and you won’t see it on your side of the aisle for another 10 to 12 years. Sucks, donit?
Other than you, and the rest of the usual suspects, just WHO believes in all that rot? I mean really. Social programs, regulation, and increased taxation. Wonderful platform there. Sounds like Obama’s. I hope it doesn’t work 
but it’s hardly the American way.
Well, he sort of is, isn’t he? He’s the candidate for those 28% who actually like the US as it is today.
God forbid one can hold a legitimately come-by opinion that differs from your own. No, it’s just rot and nobody believes it but the crazies. Zealot.
Allow me to share a little story (which I just made up):
Once upon a time, there was a laaaaarge group of Objectivists who where tired of having to give all of their hard earned money to a government system. So they decided to cordon off a patch of land all to themselves, and become Producers, living off the land and enjoying life. For a while, things went well. Everyone made a little of everything, since the idea of trading failed after people were unable to give up their hard earned food. People had kids, and the small village lived on. Then, one season, a swine virus ran rampant through the town. Since each villager could only spare the effort for one or two hogs (remember, they had to provide everything for themselves) and the hogs were their only good source of protien, all of the farmers except those who had a few extra pork barrels got protien defiency and died.
The few remaining farmers decided to build a new type of system. In this system, each farmer would farm a certian crop, and then trade it with each other farmer. The Objectivists justified the trading with the argument that “I’m getting something in return each time I give something away. That’s fair!” And it started out that way. However, eventually, Joel, the salt farmer, who was as crafty as he was wicked, got an idea. Joel decided to stop trading his salt for anything but hard labor and 90% of the food grown by the other farmers. Since the salt was the only real source of sodium for the farmers, they had no choice to comply. And so Joel and his descendants got fat off the labors of everyone else, providing little in return.
This structure was in place for many generations. Then one day, one of the great-great-great grandchildren of the original pork barrel-stocking farmers got an idea. Tris–for Tristan was his name–decided to gather up all of the thin, overworked Objectevists and use their sheer numbers to overwhelm Roel, the great great great grandchild of Joel and take over his salt marshes. A long battle was waged. Many died. But eventually the group was victorious. And as the Objectevists lauded their own awesomness for the victory, Tris pointed out a flaw in the plan.
“What’s to keep any one of us from doing the same thing again? It’s in our best self interest–Roel was producing, and he certainly enjoyed life the most out of any one of us.” The Objectevists mulled over the point for a while. Then Luke, a short, thin (thinner than most–remember, they had just overthrown Roel and were still recovering) boy who nevertheless proved his tenacity many times, came up with an idea. They would create a group of people who were special Producers. Their product was order. Sure, they would farm some, but their main goal was to keep any one Objectevist from taking power from the rest. Objections were raised–the most common being, “If they don’t farm as hard as the rest of us, then why should they get our trade?”. Slowly, Brian, one who proved his intellect by already understanding Luke’s plan, explained in plain terms that, if we gave a portion of our food to people who made little, they would give us an environment free from chaos and despair.
The Objectivists went back to their lives, guarded by the cadre whom they had elected–Tris, Luke, Brian, along with two other quickwitted leaders (although they were more hesitant about leading), Magellan and Carol. As more problems, such as disease and a lack of defense against invadors popped up, the cadre realized that producing peace and order was more demanding than any farm. So they abandoned their near fallow farms in order to better serve the rest of the Objectivists.
Then one day, a problem came up which was completly foreign to the great great great grandchildren of the people and its cadre. An earthquake had hit the Shaynas’ farm, and little Tayna Shayna was growing up with no farm and no land around her to build a new one (the little group of people had grown, and only so many farms fit on one acre). There was land far away, but Tayna knew that the meager food she had would not last the journey, no matter how hard she bartered. For the first, time a young (14ish) girl was at a disadvantage solely because of who her parents were. A large debate erupted in the town–for Tanya was very visible, limping through the streets with her dirty rucksack slung over her shoulder. Most of the Objectivists wanted nothing to do with it. If she wants to live, she has to produce, said the townsfolk. But one very persuasive man named Queed made a novel argument. If we gave Tayna enough food to survive her trek, said Queed, she would survive to produce food to trade and pay back her debt to the society. If we didn’t, she would die, meaning more years that distant farm stayed fallow. Though the (verbal) battles raged, the current cadre was persuaded by Queed, and decided to exchange the food for the promise of future production.
Tayna managed to escape the circumstances of her childhood, and the cadre took on a new mission. Their mission was to keep everyone at their highest levels of production, whether that meant giving food to jumpstart the invention of a new plow, defending against pillagers using an army fed off the people’s food stock, giving food to those whose parents were lazy and unable to produce much, or keeping evil townspeople from demanding exorbiant prices of tomatoes for one lamb.
And the happy village of Objectivists lived happily ever after. The End.
He’s’ entitled to his opinion, of course, but the “tide has turned” rhetoric implying that most people buy into that nonsense is b.s.
We will see, I guess. McCain does seem to at least be running on a platform of changing things, including health care and energy policy. Not the way I want, but still, he’s going to be a changey busybody just like Obama if you believe what he says (i don’t).
In any event it seems unarguable that a majority of people think that they way things are now is not ideal.
Have you been paying no attention to the world around you at all? Obama is leading McCain in the polls and the Dems are going to sweep Congress in November, the only question is by how much.
In denial much?
This sounds just like the last two pres election cycles here on the board. Everybody was so sure the Dems would win. What will the Dems do if somehow the Pubbies win again? (boardwise, I mean)
I like Obama myself, but I know the world won’t end no matter who is elected, and it would be fucking priceless to see the reaction here if the pubs win again. Fucking priceless. Heh
Humane Society called. You can’t have any more puppies.
No, Jay, I just come in and watch folks like you make fools of yourselves in public.
Thanks for not disappointing me.
It means exactly what I think it does: I didn’t type slowly enough for Baldwin to understand the definition, so he needed clarification.
People are welcome to their own opinions, as long as they realize that Carol (and Hannity) are the ultimate arbiters of what is and isn’t “American”.
Carol has already made up it’s mind, and if you’re such a stupidity-blinded commie pinko faggot treehugger, well, fortunately you’ll be one of the first up against the wall when real Americans take over.
-Joe
See thread referenced here for how it can be so easy: In Cafe Society
-Joe