I wouldn’t go that far, but he definitely should have raised the issue. He ran a pitiful campaign, taking far to long to respond to the Swifties and not going negative early enough. Seems like it happens every time, the Dems pledge to run a clean and positive campaign and the Pubbies come out and load up the mud machine. Only when the polls go severely downhill do the Dems respond in kind but too little, too late.
I am not willing to let the public at large off the hook. We should have demanded explanations earlier and should have known better than to brush off Abu Gharib as the acts of a few rogues.
Perhaps. But more to the point, it was a loser. Might as well paint his dick blue, go on Meet the Press and wave it at Tim Russert. We are enormously sentimental when it comes to Our Heroes, a fact that the Tighty Righties exploit with happy abandon. America wants to believe the “few bad apples” scenario, and they will. Confront them with facts and they will turn on thee, and rend thee.
It is an unhappy fact that we will be forced to choose between two whores. I will choose the one with fewer running sores and fewer obvious STDs. And if forced to choose between the idealist candidate willing to tell the truth at all costs, and the pragmatist willing to fudge the facts in order to win, I will choose the pragmatist. Because the stakes are too high. No virgin is ever elected Queen of the Harlots.
I don’t think negative personal attacks are the ticket. I do know that the video of Rummy shaking SH’s hand would have been in every fucking commercial, with the title “yo bushizzle was up wif dat?”
Lemme see if I got this right. If you object to my grabbing your dick, jamming it into a light socket and cranking up the juice, I can say that your objection is your own personal problem, and therefore it isn’t torture. Why should it bother you to have someone do that to you? That’s your problem, buckko.
Guess what, Reeder? They’re going to do that anyway. We are not talking about human beings doing the beheading, we’re talking about animals whose GAWD told them to do it.
No, this is a great example of the Bushite strategy. Here we have strong evidence that the prisoners were kept in freezing cells, or in stifling cells. I had never heard of the Israeli flag thing before. I’m not even sure if such a thing is against the Geneva Conventions. But if all that happened to the prisoners was being wrapped in an Israeli flag, we wouldn’t be having this thread, would we. Milroy shows his basic support of the torture by his use of misdirection to steer the thread to something innocuous.
You’re half right. They ARE going to do that anyway. But the beheaders are in fact human beings–which are, admittedly, a member of the wonderfully diverse Animal Kingdom. I get your metaphor, but it’s important to never forget that these “animals” are the same specie as you, me and yes, even World Eater (they’re just not as heavily inked)
Gotta remember that they are human beings for a couple reasons. Most important of which is that this will keep you from objectifying them, and making their extermination easier to stomach. Also, they feel the need to hack mellon for a reason. Their reasons are no big secret–they feel we threaten their way of life and they are trying to compel us to leave. Our choice is to validate their techniques and bugger off, or dig in our heels and take some losses.
f course, the easiest way to keep Western nuggets attatched to their necks is to remove ourselves completely from the arena. The way things stand now that would result in one hell of a bloodbath, but at least no Westerners would be killed. That what you want?
Don’t think of it that way. Feel pride that you’re one of the dwindling number of people who actually knows what America is supposed to stand for. And especially feel superior to the people who are so badly out of touch with reality that they can somehow look at our deep love of country and our desire not to be the bad guys and transform it into hatred and “eagerness” to be found evil in order to justify their own moral bankruptcy.
Then feel sad that the deluded and morally bankrupt are winning.
But don’t be embarrassed. You’re on the side of right. Periodically, it is necessary to remind the populace what being an American is supposed to be all about. It’s just getting harder and harder to do it.
So, painting yourself as the opposition to those who don’t care is, stupid? Funny… I thought having the courage of your convictions was a good thing.
Absurd.
Some of us have done our best to fight this shit.
Those who support Bush have far more personal responsibility than those of us who fought it.
“We” weren’t in those debates, Kerry was.
Don’t blame us for not controlling Kerry’s mind, ya know?
Careful, very careful.
We’re not fighting animals, we’re fighting human beings.
And I will note, if we can engage in torture, what right do we have to call them ‘animals’ for doing the same thing?
People died in Abu Graib, children were raped…
I’d look real hard in the mirror before we talk about anybody being an ‘animal’.
Cervaise: I wish I could feel like that, but I honestly don’t believe I’m a ‘better American’ than anybody else. Yes, I do feel like my countrymen to a large degree have sold our birthright…
But damnit, this is still my country, and it’s very hard to accept that there’s nothing I can do.
And I can’t bring myself to feel any pride for doing what I view as a patriotic duty, that is, protecting my country and its system of jurisprudence.
Meh.
Eh, you had me up to the point where reading material was brought in.
I guess we disagree here… the administration gave up on Bin Laden because we couldn’t get him, because we never put in the proper ammount of energy/planning. And then attention was diverted to a non-existant problem in order to give people something to focus on. Hell, Lon Cheney’s connecting Iraq and 9/11 was enough to convince a great many Americans that Iraq was somehow part of the war on terror.
Shouldn’t we hold our commander in chief to strict standards?
Are they allowed to make a ‘series of miscalculations’ which end in anarchy for another nation and death for American soldiers?
a)I don’t feel the blame has to stop, I think Bush should be blamed for his mistakes.
b) by stealing Florida, the entire election was stolen, as it hinged on Florida’s electoral votes.
How am I responsible for that?
Hell I’m not even a democrat, I don’t take much blame for them not getting their act together.
Hell, with Bush’s win, his behavior is still his fault. No easy way out that I can see.
You’re kidding, right?
We go into a nation to for the sake of ‘freedom’, and damnit, if they won’t accept our methods for giving them ‘freedom’ then it’s certainly their fault.
There’s also a difference between partisans rising up and replacing a dictator and a foreign power coming in, in order to set up a new regime.
Wow… Um…
I’m not sure how to touch this 'un.
I blame people for their actions.
That is indeed my contention.
We don’t need to give them our brand. Make sure they have medical care, the ability to feed themselves, decent economies… etc. And then, allow them to make their choices from there.
I’m sure to a certain degree they want us to leave and let them run their lives.
But I’m also just as sure that providing loans towards, say, medical colleges, wouldn’t be viewed as imperialism.
I may be wrong of course.
And, Sadaam deprived them of their rights to practice their religion freely, but he was evidently tolerable enough…
(I’d also add that a number of dictators have had the CIA stamp of approval)
Speak for yourself
Well, we don’t overthrow our governments here… him getting voted back in did, however, blow my mind.
Ah, but for 9/11 it was largely Bin Laden’s fault.
And we gave up on hunting him… and with that too, I have no idea what the real reason was.
