Fuck 'em, says I. I don’t want to have to hear screaming children in a restaurant. It’s extremely distracting if I’m trying to have a conversation. There’s one thing I love about dinner in a college town: rarely can any couples with kids afford to go out to eat. Kids stay home, I eat in peace. One day I will start a restaurant that segregates and discriminates against loud, obnoxious children. They can have their own room.
Two facts which tell me what the problem is, right there - Daddy is a foul mouthed plank who likes shouting at women and the woman manager is afraid of loudmouthed men. However politically correct we all might like to be, those are two pretty typical kinds of people.
So in essence, I would say that the family should have been asked to leave because the father was offensive to the staff, rather than anyone getting wound up about the the behaviour of the kids at all. The kids aren’t going to know any better if the parents don’t put manners on them.
It was probably a no-win situation for the manager, as I will now badmouth that restaurant. However, I think she should have handled it by removing the source of the problem.
Ah, the joys of fine dining.
The parents should control the children. Period. If a child is making a ruckus in any confined area where it is clear he is disturbing other people, one of the parents should take the child and leave if he/she is able to do so. This is Manners 101 and I don’t know why other people are so oblivious or self centered that they don’t comply.
On the other hand, people should also understand that there are certain places where loud children are fair game. Don’t go to “The Muppets Take Manhattan” or McDonald’s and expect silence.
We had ordered and tried to eat the salads. The meal was being delivered to our table when we left, so we did not eat the main course.
Suppose you were in a restaurant and the john backed up and the stench was noticeable at your table. You ask to be moved, then are told you can’t be and that you have to put up with it. Would you pay for a meal under those circumstances? Same thing here.
There are very good points being made about consideration of others’ enjoyment being made. I don’t think anybody has mentioned safety in the case of free-range children.
My mother, sister and I were out for lunch at some sort of AppleBees type place. One little guy, who’d managed to wander from the *other side * of the restaurant, was running around. He got underfoot one of the waitresses carrying a huge tray of dishes she’d just cleared and tripped her. Heavy plates, glasses and knives, not to mention that huge tray, came down all over my sister.
The waitress caught part of the table with her shoulder and the boy was mostly under her. Luckily all the steak knives missed skewering somebody and bruises and a ruined outfit (her new, fancy job interview outfit-- it wasn’t cheap) were the only damage done.
The manager apologized profusely, the waitress apologized (why I don’t know), the meal was free along with coupons for another free. My sister sent him the bill for replacing her clothes and it was paid no problem. The parents gave us a nasty glare and completely insincere ‘sorry’ and then flounced out. If the manager had insisted the kid stay at his proper table it wouldn’t have happened. Lucky for us nobody was seriously hurt, but the potential for harm was scary.
Winning option: Clothahump requests and gets meals packaged to go, departs restaurant without undue confrontations, writes civil but scathing letter to restaurant management, gets gift certificates (or not) and returns for a better experience (or not).
I have not yet seen any restaurant having personnel with sufficient spine to tell grossly irresponsible parents to leave. I don’t expect it, but given sufficient unpleasantness I won’t come back.
Exactly.
You’re the manager and you’re going to have an angry customer no matter what you do here. Now think carefully - who would you rather see stomp off and never come back, the customer who is screaming and bothering other customers, or the one who is not screaming and not bothering other customers?
Sure. But nobody is obligated to bring a 18 months old toddler in a restaurant. Precisely because what the OP describes must be expected.
It’s very rarely done over here, almost never, actually, to the relief of american tourists from what I gather on travel boards…
On the other hand, they have to endure the smoke…
I used to work in a pizza joint, and needless to say there were kids running everywhere all of the time. We were carrying pizzas fresh out of the oven, loaded down with mozzarella so hot it was like napalm. I used to show parents the scars on my arms and say “This could be your child’s face.”
It seems to me it’s exactly what posters are stating parents should do. Even better : don’t bring the toddler in the restaurant at the first place. I can’t think of many scenarios where you absolutely must do so.
Who do? The parents who voluntarily take their kids somwhere they know will be smoky? And is that somehow NOT the parents call?
I was refering to the american tourists who appreciate the lack of screaming kids in french restaurants.
I beg your pardon, clairobscur. I missed your first post for some inexplicable reason.
I agree.
I was just trying to draw a distinction between a baby that is too young to respond to parental discipline, and a toddler who, when properly disciplined, knows that it’s not acceptable to yell at the top of your voice in a crowded place.
heh, I was six weeks old when my parents first took me out to dinner. They were on holicay, and the babysitter organised by the hotel couldn’t get me to sleep, so They put me in a bouncy chair on the table and I slept right through the meal.
French and Italians are actually quite happy to have kids in a restaurant, as long as they’re well-behaved kids. I know this from family holidays spent with my families, when we only ever went to nice restaurants. This was on the firm understnding that one episode of bad behaviour (just one) and it would be the last meal out, ever.
It’s not all kids, it’s badly behaved kids.
And in both circumstances, it is the parent’s obligation to look after the child in question, up to and including removal if the child continues to intrude on the dining experience of other patrons.
Ashes, a little while ago I overheard a waitress quite bluntly telling a parent to keep their child from running around in a crowded restaurant. I just about applauded her.
That’s true…but why are they badly behaved? Unquestionably, it is because the child is being raised without proper guidance and discipline.
Now, what type of discipline? That’s hard to say. Different kids respond differently to different kinds of discipline. As they mature, the response changes, but at 18 months or so, I can absolutely assure you, and child WILL understand corporal punishment applied at appropriate times and in appropriate measures. They’re not quite sophisticated enough at that age to understand, “be quiet or I’ll take your toys away when we get home,” and they won’t make the connection. Punishment/discipline in that situation must be immediate and appropriate. This is not ALWAYS corporal, but more than likely as not, it would at least be understood.
Yes it is. Although i am usually willing to give a little more slack to a parent doing his or her best to quiet a crying baby than to a parent whose toddler is screaming like a banshee just to attract attention.