No, I simply pointed out what a moron you are behind the wheel, and you persist in calling it safe driving, yet you’ve never cited a single law regarding the legality of passing on the right.
Incidentally, you’re the only one who mentions rage, although most of us probably see it in your immature attitude behind the wheel.
I agree that the person driving slowly in the left lane is a dick. However, in my experience lane changing is a major cause of accidents. (Another is sudden braking.)
In your scenario, passing on the right causes 0 lane changes. Wanting to pass on the left causes four - you moving to the left, the other car moving to the right, you moving to the right again after you pass, and the other car moving to the left again to resume his dickish ways. Which is safer?
It seems to me that the safest way of dealing with an idiot is to get away from him as quickly as possible, not ride his tail.
The congested freeway I take home has four or more independent lanes of traffic and there is massive amounts of passing on the right with no ill effects
My thought on this is, after the “idiot” moves into the right lane, what’s next?
Do you picture him saying, “thank you anonymous driver for reminding me on how to properly drive on the highway. I’ll never make that mistake again.”
Or is he more likely to say, “fucking asshole, learn to drive!”
Also, after teaching the lesson, do you pull over and let the driver pass again to make sure he is still in the correct lane? Maybe down the road, someone slower is in the right lane, so the driver moves back into the left and decides to stay until another lane change is needed.
As for general stupid drivers, there really is nothing to be done unless we drastically change the our car dominant culture. Unfortunately, no one currently has the will to even address the topic.
First of all, in my general area, left lane exits off of a divided highway are extremely rare (as they doubtless are in most areas). I can think of only two of them within a 75-mile radius, and I know exactly where they are. So no, this is not what’s going on.
Second of all, the occasions upon which this has happened have all taken place on highways I’m extremely familiar with. This incidents have occurred in areas that are nowhere near an exit of any kind.
This is simply not a factor. If such an incident took place in an unfamiliar area, I would be more inclined to cut the driver some slack. But remember that in my original description I said they’ve happened on the open road, with other traffic (if there is any at all) a great distance from the car in question.
…and you persist in calling it unsafe driving without ever once saying why you think it is. At least others have made an attempt to do so. You’ve shown repeatedly that all you’ve got to offer is profanity and name calling in your arsenal. Sorry, I remain unimpressed.
Try to pay attention, will you? What I cited, repeatedly (in this post, for example), was decades of precedent for slower traffic in the right lane and passing traffic on the left. I’m sorry if you’re too young or otherwise clueless to realize this, but I can assure you I’m not making this up.
What individual and differing state laws may say on this issue is immaterial. I asked another poster to tell me what percentage of drivers study the laws governing driving in their state. He didn’t answer, just as I predicted he wouldn’t. People drive the way decades of precedent have taught them to drive.
And something else: a law that says it’s OK to pass on the right under certain limited circumstances does not constitute a recommendation to pass on the right.
Incidentally, the actual definition of “road rage” is a driver acting upon his or her anger at the actions of another driver. I’m willing to bet that there isn’t a single poster in this thread who has actually translated that anger into a physical action against another driver (unless you want to count flipping the bird…something I’m quite sure you’ve never done in the course of your entire driving career).
I said the actions of other drivers may give me an understanding of how road rage develops. I never condoned road rage, and I have never translated it into action either. I made this very clear in my first post in this thread. But as usual, you were too busy working yourself into a lather to actually see this.
I have explained in detail exactly what I do when I encounter a driver in the circumstance I originally outlined. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about the actions I take under these circumstances. If you disagree, then I’ll have to ask you FOR THE THIRD time to describe why you feel they are.
But then, that would necessitate you leaving behind your fulminations and profanity and all the other stuff that seems to really get you off. And as you’ve made clear…that’s all you’ve got.
Once again, the scenario I’ve describe has nothing to do with a “congested” freeway. I agree that under high-traffic situations, a certain amount of passing on the right will take place just because there are only so many places for various cars to be. Nevertheless, most drivers still make every effort to do their passing on the right.
I have also said that I do not “ride the tail” of a driver acting in this fashion. And lane changes involving me and one other driver do not constitute any danger whatsoever. I really wish everyone would go back and read my original description of the circumstance I was complaining about.
Once again, most drivers who are dickish enough in the first place to toddle along in the left lane when they have no reason to be there at least do have the sense to move over to the right if they notice a car approaching them from the rear in that same lane at a higher speed. They do so, and the problem is solved without incident (and in my opinion, in a much safer manner than if I were to pass this car on the right). My beef is with those who remain clueless and stay right where they are.
I don’t picture him saying much of anything, as he’s not generally on the planet in the first place.
And I’m not concerned with what he’s “likely to say” to me. The possible statement you put into his mouth is a ludicrous one under the circumstances, no?
I have no control over this. I would only point out that said driver is unlikely to “pass again,” as he was already going slowly in the left lane.
You misunderstand again. I’m asking you for a cite, not your opinion. SHOW me a traffic law, in the US, where passing on the right on an interstate highway is illegal.
If you can’t, then simply admit that you’re nothing more than a narcissist fast lane junior mod.
A couple of times on near empty freeways, I’d be tooling along in the right lane in my Tercel at the speed limit when an 18-wheeler would catch up to me. If I was sure (and entirely so) I could do so safely, I’d move to the left, let him overtake, then move back to the right behind him. I consider this a courtesy, sparing the far larger vehicle the lane-changes.
I’m betting all jurisdictions follow mine.
V C Section 21754 Passing on the Right (California)
754. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
…
© Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel.
(d) Upon a one-way street.
(e) Upon a highway divided into two roadways where traffic is restricted to one direction upon each of such roadways.
Morgenstern, there’s another Vehicle Code section, slightly off-subject, dealing with streetcars ( now relevant, of course, only in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego) requiring passing one on the right except:
–When directed by a policeman to pass on the left.
–On a one-way street.
–Where the tracks are so close to the right-hand curb as to make passing on the right impossible. FYI.
What you’re doing is worse than just getting on with your day and passing on the right. It’s dangerous because you’re challenging the other driver and forcing them to do something they obviously don’t want to do. Maybe they are drunk, maybe they are old, maybe they are waiting for Mr. Road Rules Enforcer to try and make them move, or maybe they are just a moron. By moving over you’re throwing down your gauntlet and indicating that you expect them to make way for you. If they don’t move over, what do you do? Do you step up your challenge by flashing your lights or move in closer? Do you just follow them for miles while the “dangerous” drivers pass on the right? Or do you eventually move back over to the right and pass, shaking your fist and yelling: “There are decades of precedent!”
As I expected, you’ve ignored most of what I posted, because you know you have no answer for it. Instead, you’ve focused on one narrow issue and hoped that no one will notice that you don’t have a leg to stand on with all the other elements that have been discussed that are beyond your grasp.
Once again, listen carefully:
• The statement that there are decades of precedent for using the left lane for passing and the right lane if you’re driving more slowly is not my “opinion,” it’s a fact.
• The statement that the majority of passing on two-lane divided highways is done by cars moving over to the left lane is not my “opinion,” it’s a fact.
• The statement that the overwhelming majority of drivers on the road don’t study their states’ driving laws is not my “opinion,” it’s a fact.
• The statement that the overwhelming majority of drivers are thus guided by the precedent set by decades of driving on divided highways in the country rather than by an exacting study of their state’s driving laws is not my “opinion,” it’s a fact.
If you have evidence that any of the above statements are not factual, please present it.
And by the way, I have never once said that passing on the right is “illegal.” I’ve said that it’s a bad idea, and I’ve given many reasons why it’s a bad idea. I stand behind this position.
You, on the other hand, have failed to address this issue at all, but have been content to call me an “unsafe” driver — without once giving any evidence as to why you believe this is so, despite being asked to at least three times.
Really, buddy…it’s time to put up or shut up.
Ah, still more petulant name calling. This is the only thing in the entire course of our exchanges you’ve proven you’re any good at. Congratulations…you must be so proud!
Actually, what I’m doing is what the overwhelming majority of drivers do when they want to move at a higher speed that the car that’s ahead of them. I’m moving over to the left lane.
This is something that’s done thousands of times a second on highways all across our great nation, and in situations where traffic is much heavier that the one I’ve put forth. So what I don’t get is how it’s safe under those conditions, but unsafe under mine. Can you explain that?
I’ve said what I do. I move to the left lane well in advance of approaching the driver, and put my turn signal on. If the driver doesn’t move, yes I beep my horn (I don’t lay on it), and I may flash my lights. I don’t ride their rear bumper.
Under these circumstances, MOST drivers move over to the right. It’s not at all obvious from the start that this is “something they don’t want to do.” Maybe they’ve just been daydreaming and not paying much attention. Yes, they should never have been there in the first place, but at least they correct the situation, and the problem is solved. Maybe they’ll pay more attention in the future, or maybe they won’t.
There are some drivers, though, that still don’t get it, and it was these drivers who were the subject of my initial rant. If they don’t move over, then yes, I have no recourse but to eventually pass them on the right. I don’t believe that this is a good initial approach to the situation, though, and I’ve said why.
What I don’t get is how, by doing what all drivers routinely do when they want to pass (signal their intent and move to the left lane), I’m somehow in the wrong here. And I don’t get why some of you are way more upset with me than you are with the idiot driver.
Yes, but the car is NOT ahead of you, it’s not even in the same lane! I think there is just a fundamental disconnect here with regards to this situation.
Again, yes, moving into the left lane to pass IS done thousands of times a second in our great nation, but NOT to pass a car that is not even in the same lane as you!
Because ALL drivers do NOT routinely try to pass a car IN ANOTHER LANE by moving behind said car and then trying to force THEM to change lanes so you can pass.
Again, to be clear, i’m pretty sure almost everyone agrees that a majority of people would move into the left lane to pass, and that almost everyone agrees that a person shouldn’t drive in the left lane when not passing. However, you feel that passing a person NOT EVEN IN THE SAME LANE as you by moving behind them instead of passing on the right is the correct thing to do. I doubt many people think this, and I doubt if many people have even SEEN this be done.
Out of curiosity, if you could grant me one hypothetical: If you were on a 4 lane highway driving in the far right lane, and a person 2 lanes over was going slower than you, would you change 3 lanes to the far left lane just to pass him? What if he was 1 lane over? Would you change 2 lanes to the 2nd left lane to pass him?
No, it’s not, not when there is an open lane in front of them. In your specific scenario the other car isn’t directly ahead of you, it’s in the left lane and you have the open right lane in front of you. Yet you choose to move over, obstruct your own free passage, and probably end up having to slow down. I think most drivers would just pass them on the right.
Yes, people pass on the left thousands of times a second. Sometimes you move over to the left to pass a slower car on the right and there is already someone else in the left lane who is going slower than you but faster than the first car. The assumption is that they will move back to the right after they complete their pass. You don’t see how moving over to an occupied lane under heavier traffic conditions is different than your scenario?
No, I hate left lane hogs just as much as the next guy and I think their’s is the bigger wrong. I just think it’s foolish to alter your course just to teach them a lesson. You asked how what you’re doing could possibly be dangerous and I gave an example.
So you have nothing but your opinion to support your opinion? No cite? Nothing official that supports your narcissistic “Get off my road” mentality? I didn’t think so. :rolleyes:
On a two-lane divided highway, it is in the lane adjacent to mine. Read on for why this is significant.
Generally I would follow the dictate that says the fastest-moving traffic moves to the left lanes, and the slower moving traffic stays to the right.
But this is an instructive example. If there was an open lane between the car to my left and me (and especially if there were moderate-to-heavy traffic in the lanes other than mine) — then no, I probably wouldn’t move to the left, although I would question more than ever what the slowest-moving driver was doing in the lane reserved for the fastest drivers.
However, I would feel better staying in my lane and passing him on the right in this instance because our cars will not be in proximity to each other in such a way that one bad move on either of our parts could cause us to crash into each other.
If there are only two lanes going in our direction and the car is in the lane adjacent to mine, then this WILL be the case when I pass that car. Under these circumstances, as I’ve said before, I want to be in the position where he can most easily sense my presence — visually and for that matter aurally too.
If I pass him on the left, I’m in the position that is physically the closest to him, and also in a spot where he can see me in his left side-view mirror without turning his head. So I continue to believe that, in the scenario I outlined, my approach to this is the safer one.
And as I’ve said several times, in most cases, my approach works just fine. In the spirit of this thread, I’m pitting those “stupid drivers” who don’t follow the universally accepted rules of the road.
So you don’t understand the difference between “fact” and “opinion.” So you continue to refuse to get into any of the particulars of this disagreement.
I gave you an invitation to provide evidence that any of the statements I made in the post you’re “responding” to (I have to put this in quotes) were not factual. You know you can’t do it, so you just ignore it.
So you continue to imagine that you’ve won the debate if you ignore everything and simply call a few more names.
Pat yourself on the back…you’re doing great!
If I make my move well in advance (which I do) and the driver takes the cue the way he should, then I don’t have to do much slowing down at all.
Yes, I’ve said that heavier traffic scenarios present different circumstances. But what I’m doing is driving consistently, applying the rules of the road consistently. As I said in an earlier post, accidents are often the result of unpredictable or unusual behavior. In my book, that’s what passing on the right is.
Granted, the worst of the drivers in my scenario are so clueless that maybe this doesn’t matter. But said driver, if he’s paying any attention at all, is more likely to be aware of my presence if I’m behind him in the same lane, as people check their center-mounted rear-view mirrors more frequently than they do their side mirrors. And they check their left side-view mirrors more frequently than their right ones. If I move over to his lane, I’m in the position with the greatest odds of him being aware of my presence.
And I’ve given examples of why I think passing on the right is more dangerous than my initial approach.