I pit stupid drivers!

[Slash1972]

@DChord568

And as I’ve said several times, in most cases, my approach works just fine. In the spirit of this thread, I’m pitting those “stupid drivers” who don’t follow the universally accepted rules of the road.

If you were only pitting people for not moving over when someone is trying to pass, or pitting people for driving slower in the fast lane, i doubt many people would disagree.

However, the way you described your passing is what i think most people would disagree with is part of the “universally accepted rules of the road” Unfortunately, you keep equating their disagreement with simple “passing on the left” and “slower cars should move over” which is NOT where the disagreement lies.

And as I hope you’ve noticed, I’m not upset nor hostile, but it would be nice if you could point out a set of “universally accepted rules of the road” that include moving into the left lane to pass a car that is ALREADY in the left lane.

[Voyager]

@DChord568

Once again, the scenario I’ve describe has nothing to do with a “congested” freeway. I agree that under high-traffic situations, a certain amount of passing on the right will take place just because there are only so many places for various cars to be. Nevertheless, most drivers still make every effort to do their passing on the right.

I assume you mean left here. And it’s not true. Most drivers pass while staying in their lanes - left or right of the slow car. Those stuck behind a slow car will move to whatever lane is open. In certain cases, such as the road boulder is in the lane next to the carpool lane, you can only pass on the right.
However my point was that passing on the right is not inherently dangerous, and might be the best situation. I understand that the road in your example is not congested - moving back and forth on the roads I drive is nearly impossible.

I have also said that I do not “ride the tail” of a driver acting in this fashion. And lane changes involving me and one other driver do not constitute any danger whatsoever. I really wish everyone would go back and read my original description of the circumstance I was complaining about.

Good for you, but I’m not sure how this road boulder will realize that you want him to move over since you are leaving lots of room. If he had enough of a clue to realize this, he wouldn’t be in the left lane in the first place.

Once again, most drivers who are dickish enough in the first place to toddle along in the left lane when they have no reason to be there at least do have the sense to move over to the right if they notice a car approaching them from the rear in that same lane at a higher speed. They do so, and the problem is solved without incident (and in my opinion, in a much safer manner than if I were to pass this car on the right). My beef is with those who remain clueless and stay right where they are.

Unfortunately we can’t cure dickishness, we can just put ourselves as far away from it as possible.

[Voyager]

@DChord568

Yes, I’ve said that heavier traffic scenarios present different circumstances. But what I’m doing is driving consistently, applying the rules of the road consistently. As I said in an earlier post, accidents are often the result of unpredictable or unusual behavior. In my book, that’s what passing on the right is.

Not in this situation. A person moving slowly in the left lane is probably used to being passed on the right.

Granted, the worst of the drivers in my scenario are so clueless that maybe this doesn’t matter. But said driver, if he’s paying any attention at all, is more likely to be aware of my presence if I’m behind him in the same lane, as people check their center-mounted rear-view mirrors more frequently than they do their side mirrors. And they check their left side-view mirrors more frequently than their right ones. If I move over to his lane, I’m in the position with the greatest odds of him being aware of my presence.

He’d also have to figure out that you moving to the left means you want him to move to the right, which is not at all obvious. In any case, anyone smart enough to check the rear view mirror will check the right mirror before moving to the right.
I’d also be nervous that when he sees you behind him he will decide to randomly brake.
There are tons of stupid drivers out there, but the roads don’t get any safer when others try to correct their behavior. Leave that to the cops.
And I’ve given examples of why I think passing on the right is more dangerous than my initial approach.
[/QUOTE]

[Morgenstern]

@DChord568

So you don’t understand the difference between “fact” and “opinion.” So you continue to refuse to get into any of the particulars of this disagreement.

Your opinion is not acceptable. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion though, keep ignoring them.

@DChord568

I gave you an invitation to provide evidence that any of the statements I made in the post you’re “responding” to (I have to put this in quotes) were not factual. You know you can’t do it, so you just ignore it.

You still don’t see how ridiculous your position is. You leave a completely clear lane to get behind another driver in the next lane over to “teach him a lesson” and make him move over so you can pass him. Thereafter you return to the clear lane you were originally in and continue on. You do this because you pulled some factoid out of a Yak’s anus saying this is a smart thing to do and safe drivers always do the smart thing. You have failed to support this stupidity with anything other than your opinion. Find me something that supports this ridiculous position of yours, other than your opinion.

@DChord568

So you continue to imagine that you’ve won the debate if you ignore everything and simply call a few more names.

Pat yourself on the back…you’re doing great!

Your opinions are worthless as citations in the real world. Cite something that supports this utterly ridiculous position of yours please. A study, a law, anything other than your opinion. I’ve proven to you that it’s perfectly legal and acceptable to pass on the right. I proved this by posting a section of the California Vehicle Code. Therefore, your contention that passing on the right is inappropriate is incorrect. You are wrong.

[DChord568]

I appreciate the views of those in this thread who have managed to actually discuss the substance of this issue, and I appreciate that they’ve done so without hostility.

I think what we have to do is realize that there is a continuum of stupidity when it comes to the drivers in question. At the low end of this continuum is simple inattentiveness or carelessness. Maybe they passed someone earlier and just never bothered to get back in the right lane. In the middle of this continuum are those who were absent that day in Driver’s Ed (where it still exists) or were off in the clouds somewhere when the “go slow on the right, pass on the left” lesson was given out. On the high end are those who think their car is the only one on the road, and give no thought whatsoever to the presence of other drivers.

Of course, I have no idea when I spot a car in the left lane some distance ahead of me where along this continuum the driver falls. I only know that my first instinct when confronted with a slower-moving car under any circumstances is to move to the passing lane. It is not to continue in the right lane at a higher rate of speed until I’m parallel with that car. I’m not comfortable doing this, and I’ve given several good reasons why.

Those on the low to middle part of that continuum get the message when they see my car approaching from the rear at a higher speed than what they’re traveling, and they move over to the right lane. And thus, we now have a vehicular transaction that takes place millions of times a day in exactly the same way — a faster car uses the left lane to pass a slower car in the right lane.

The car in my scenario can make this move more safely than anyone, because there are no other cars around him or ahead of him. While he has already defined himself as a bad driver, I think there’s less peril here than passing him on the right. By making this move, he has had to at least temporarily awaken from his stupor and actually pay attention to his driving, and should still be doing so as I pass him on the left.

If I pass him on the right, he is just continuing to do exactly what he’s been doing all along, and will be less likely to be aware of my presence until I’m upon him. And since he’s a bad and inattentive driver (likely as not talking on his cell phone or with a passenger), he is more likely to drift out of or arbitrarily change his lane at the moment I’m passing him…this to me is far more likely than him slamming on his brakes for no reason.

Drivers on the high end of this continuum will, admittedly, continue to be oblivious. And yes, after a certain period of time, I have to pass them on the right. But I would rather give them the opportunity to first set up a normal and usual passing situation between us.

Sure, maybe they’ll perversely return immediately to the left lane once I’ve passed them. But maybe they won’t.

As has famously been said, you can’t fix stupid…and that’s not what I’m trying to do here. I’m trying to deal with it in the safest manner possible. Some of us disagree on what the safest manner is, and we’ve all given our reasons. In the end, we have to decide individually what works for us.

[Morgenstern]

@DChord568

As has famously been said, you can’t fix stupid…

You’re the embodiment of that statement. That you do well.

Buy a bicycle and leave the highways for those mature enough to drive on them without feeling the need to teach other drivers “a lesson.”

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

Macca26 has already covered one of my road-rage triggers, drivers who don’t know how to use an entrance ramp (is “Be moving at highway speed when trying to enter the highway” really that hard to grasp?), so I’ll throw out another scenario that makes it a good thing that I don’t keep a gun in my car.

I go to work via at four lane road with a wide grass median. As it approaches a major intersection, the median gives way to a long, probably quarter-mile turn lane. As traffic usually backs up, I slide over into that lane and sail past the cars to the light, where I - and this is the important bit - make a left turn.

Unfortunately, certain entitled self-absorbed shitheads decide that they shouldn’t have to wait in traffic with the rest of the proles, so they get into the turn lane, get to the light, and then try to merge back into traffic. Which 1, is douche-baggy in the extreme (inconsiderate little shitstains…) and b, means that I can’t make my turn because these self-centered fucktards are blocking the intersection, trying to cut the line. I have more than once sat through two cycles of lights because of one of these fucksticks.

It’s dangerous, and will probably get me a beating one day, but I have absolutely no patience for this sort of douchebaggery, and will get right up on their bumpers, flash my lights and lean on my horn. I’m getting mad right now, just thinking about it. Donkey-felchers. I’d like to say it’s usually a self-important douchenozzle in a Beemer, but it’s usually a young dudebro in a hoopty.

And I’m not even going to go into the morons who don’t know to move up into the fucking intersection and wait for a break in the traffic to turn left. Grrrr…:mad:

[SmellMyWort]

@DChord568

Sure, maybe they’ll perversely return immediately to the left lane once I’ve passed them. But maybe they won’t.

Hey, and if they don’t move over you can always use the median to pass on the left!

[dougie_monty]

To SMV: What’s a hoopty?

[Skywatcher]

@dougie_monty

What’s a hoopty?

Here are several examples.

[dougie_monty]

I think I used to drive one of those. ( and I don’t mean the skateboards, the surfboards or the girls pointing their buts at the camera.)

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

@Skywatcher

Here are several examples.

Yup. A hoopty is your basic P.O.S. with a nonfunctional window that’s permanently down, three non-matching paint colors, a bashed-in bumper, and broken power steering. Another synonym would be “Slow Moving Vehicle’s car”.

[dougie_monty]

@Slow_Moving_Vehicle

Yup. A hoopty is your basic P.O.S. with a nonfunctional window that’s permanently down, three non-matching paint colors, a bashed-in bumper, and broken power steering. Another synonym would be “Slow Moving Vehicle’s car”.

Would a car missing a front wheel count? I’ve seen a few of those on the street…

[DChord568]

@Morgenstern

Your opinion is not acceptable. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion though, keep ignoring them.

LOL! In this post, I listed four facts that are relevant to this discussion and issued you an invitation — on a silver platter — to refute them if you felt they were not factual.

Guess what you did? You ignored every one of them…just as you’ve ignored every other issue revolving around this discussion, because you’re too busy hurling insults, which is your sole raison d’etre for being here.

You still don’t see how ridiculous your position is. You leave a completely clear lane to get behind another driver in the next lane over to “teach him a lesson” and make him move over so you can pass him.

No, as I’ve said several times (and you’ve not surprisingly ignored), I do this because I believe this is the safest option for dealing with the situation. I’ve supported this position with several reasons I have for feeling this way.

Not surprisingly, you’re projecting your considerable generalized rage on to me with this “teaching a lesson” bit, something I’ve neither said nor implied. It could hardly be more obvious — yet this is something that you “still don’t see.”

Others have disagreed with my reasoning, and that’s fine. We’ve still managed to have a civilized exchange of ideas on the topic. Your demeanor in this thread sticks out like a sore thumb.

Thereafter you return to the clear lane you were originally in and continue on. You do this because you pulled some factoid out of a Yak’s anus saying this is a smart thing to do and safe drivers always do the smart thing. You have failed to support this stupidity with anything other than your opinion. Find me something that supports this ridiculous position of yours, other than your opinion.

I’ll be happy to do this…as soon as you find me something “other than an opinion” that supports your contention that what I’m doing is unsafe or illegal. I also will wait until you contravene the facts I used to support my opinion that were referenced in the earlier post. (My bet is that you’ll continue to ignore them.)

Your opinions are worthless as citations in the real world. Cite something that supports this utterly ridiculous position of yours please. A study, a law, anything other than your opinion. I’ve proven to you that it’s perfectly legal and acceptable to pass on the right. I proved this by posting a section of the California Vehicle Code. Therefore, your contention that passing on the right is inappropriate is incorrect. You are wrong.

As I noted in an earlier post, “legal” and “recommended” are not synonymous.

But since you asked, here is what a very cursory Google search revealed. (This was the second hit I got.)

Lo and behold, someone in the business of Driver’s Education that makes virtually the same points I’ve been making:

Passing on the right
Normally, faster cars should be in the leftmost lanes of the highway and slower cars, the rightmost. However, there are times when a slowpoke driver is occupying a middle or left lane on the highway. It may be necessary to pass this car on the right. The same rules and procedures apply for passing on the right as on the left.

**You should be aware, however, that most cars aren’t accustomed to being passed on their right. **So, you need to be on the lookout for this car to suddenly move one lane over to the right. Since they’re not used to being passed, they may not be as diligent about checking their right-side blind spot and cause a collision as you attempt to pass them.
**
Therefore, we discourage passing on the right unless you have no other alternative. **This does not mean that you should tailgate a slowpoke driver in order to get them to move over. Simply maintain your following distance and if possible, move over two lanes to the right. If you must pass on the right, try to keep a one lane buffer between you and the car you’re passing.

Here’s another citation:

On multi-lane roads, the left-most lane is intended for passing slower vehicles. Passing on the right on multi-lane roads is not recommended because the other driver will have difficulty seeing you and does not expect to be passed on the right.

I could go on, but instead I’ll wait for you to show us “a study, a law, anything” that states that passing on the right is recommended.

[DChord568]

@Morgenstern

You’re the embodiment of that statement. That you do well.

Ho-hum, another insult devoid of any substance.

May I suggest that you incorporate a sig line in your SDMB posts? Here’s one that would work well:

---

[COLOR=“Red”]Morgenstern: 100% fulminating, 0% substance[/COLOR]

No charge!

[Morgenstern]

@DChord568

Ho-hum, another insult devoid of any substance.

Here, since you’re having as much trouble seeing substance as you are understanding why you’re being a dick on the road. Let me point out the previous substance for you.

@Morgenstern

Buy a bicycle and leave the highways for those mature enough to drive on them without feeling the need to teach other drivers “a lesson.”

Seriously, if you want to be a traffic cop, go apply for the job. If not, all you’re doing is adding another douche bag to the equation. And, IMHO, you’re being the bigger douche bag.

[DChord568]

@Morgenstern

Here, since you’re having as much trouble seeing substance as you are understanding why you’re being a dick on the road. Let me point out the previous substance for you.

Uh-huh. And what part of this passage from my last post didn’t you understand?

No, as I’ve said several times (and you’ve not surprisingly ignored), I do this because I believe this is the safest option for dealing with the situation. I’ve supported this position with several reasons I have for feeling this way.

Not surprisingly, you’re projecting your considerable generalized rage on to me with this “teaching a lesson” bit, something I’ve neither said nor implied. It could hardly be more obvious — yet this is something that you “still don’t see.”

Of course, your next rage-filled escalation will probably involve calling me a liar.

Can’t wait…just as I can’t wait to see you ignore everything else in my post.

[Lacunae_Matata]

If it makes any difference whatsoever, I presented your scenario to three cops, DChord.

Officer One (patrol officer, but that’s not his primary duty - a ticket book frequently lasts him six months or more,) said “Is that driver fucking retarded?! Just pass the slower car on the right.”

Deputy Sheriff, also not primarily on traffic patrol, but she also writes citations for egregious violations: “The hell? Some guy thinks that tailing someone in the left lane is the way to make him move?”

Captain in Traffic Unit, former sergeant with State Patrol: “I’d have a rough time deciding which asshole to pull over, so I’d go for a two-fer. The lead driver would get a citation for impeding traffic and failure to follow Georgia Code 40-6-40 (Slowpoke law.) The second driver would get a warning to not be an idiot.” He went on to agree that yes, it’s customary to pass on the left, but there’s no law against passing on the right on a multi-lane highway, and from a law enforcement and safety POV, he’d much rather the second driver just move around the moron in the wrong lane and let traffic continue to move at “normal” speed. Four lane changes are less safe than passing on the right, in his considerable experience.

[Morgenstern]

@DChord568

…
Of course, your next rage-filled escalation will probably involve calling me a liar.

…

I think you’ve already proven you’re a narcissistic highway bully looking for a fight. What else can I really add?

[DChord568]

@Lacunae_Matata

If it makes any difference whatsoever, I presented your scenario to three cops, DChord.

Officer One (patrol officer, but that’s not his primary duty - a ticket book frequently lasts him six months or more,) said “Is that driver fucking retarded?! Just pass the slower car on the right.”

Deputy Sheriff, also not primarily on traffic patrol, but she also writes citations for egregious violations: “The hell? Some guy thinks that tailing someone in the left lane is the way to make him move?”

It would have been better had you presented what I actually said accurately. I made it clear that I do not “tail” the driver in the left lane. I move into the left lane considerably in advance, and position myself in such a way that if he’s paying any attention at all, he’s aware of my presence.

This is exactly the same passing scenario that takes place under most conditions. If you become aware of a car approaching you from the rear moving at a speed that’s faster than yours, you move over to the right as soon as you’re safely able to.

In most cases, what I do has the desired effect. The driver moves into the right lane, I pass him just as I would under any other circumstances, and life goes on.

I’ve also made it clear from my very first post that the drivers I have a beef with are the relatively few in number who still don’t get it, who remain in the left lane when they could easily move to the right. Under these circumstances, I have no option but to pass them on the right.

Captain in Traffic Unit, former sergeant with State Patrol: “I’d have a rough time deciding which asshole to pull over, so I’d go for a two-fer. The lead driver would get a citation for impeding traffic and failure to follow Georgia Code 40-6-40 (Slowpoke law.) The second driver would get a warning to not be an idiot.” He went on to agree that yes, it’s customary to pass on the left, but there’s no law against passing on the right on a multi-lane highway, and from a law enforcement and safety POV, he’d much rather the second driver just move around the moron in the wrong lane and let traffic continue to move at “normal” speed. Four lane changes are less safe than passing on the right, in his considerable experience.

Once again, an inaccurate presentation. I also made it clear that the instances I’m speaking of take place when there is no other “traffic” around…when the miscreant driver has no earthly reason to be in the left lane in the first place. In normal to heavy traffic, passing on the right will sometimes inevitably take place. I certainly wouldn’t insert myself into the left lane if there was other traffic a short distance behind the miscreant driver.

By the way, three lane changes, not four. 1) I move into the left lane. 2) Stupid driver moves to the right. 3) I pass the stupid driver and then move back into the right lane. I can’t take any responsibility if the stupid driver, against all reason and common sense, decides to move back into the right lane again.