I’m totally wearing my Napoleon III shirt next Cinco de Mayo.
That woud be D Y N O M I T E!
Hyperbole? If not, then that is just plain sick. 
Okeydokey
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about with regard to schools and the conduct & clothes they can decree acceptable and unacceptable. Schools can and must keep order. Didn’t you see all the links I posted before?
In the absence of a specific racist motive (as opposed to national-pride motives, or even “trolling the school” motives, neither of which I have any particular problem with) on the part of the U.S. Flag-wearers, then no, not hyperbole. I’d enjoy a cite, with a quote from one of the children in question, if that’s your argument.
Unless you were talking about me not drinking for a day, in which case I’ll just say I don’t even like tequila.
This is kind of funny. I’ve seen plenty of people–Americans not of obvious Mexican heritage–wearing sombreros, large fake mustaches, Mexican ponchos and such–for the purpose of “celebrating” Cinco de Mayo. (There were some guys dressed like this at the “Los Suns” basketball game, for example.)
Nobody seems to have a problem with this; if any Mexican-Americans are offended by the hammy ethnic stereotyping, I haven’t noticed them crying about it to media. Hell, I see Mexican-Americans dressing this way themselves to serve drinks and entertain crowds of various ethnicities on the date.
As was accurately pointed out upthread, the closest analog for Cinco de Mayo is St. Patrick’s Day–more of an expatriate holiday in the United States than a major date in the old country. And, for many, more of an excuse to sell and drink beer than a real commemoration of either history or ethnicity.
And indeed, we see the exact same kind of ethnic stereotyping and comical costuming on St. Patrick’s.
I find I must now concur with John’s assessment of your ability to approach this issue.
I will admit I missed that quote. I now feel perfectly happy with calling Ms. Nunez a complete wuss who would have got thrown into the dumpster by her peers in my high school simply for being whiny in a public forum.
You want disrespectful? Five thousand white college kids with no Mexican heritage whatsoever wearing Mexican flag t-shirts and getting so hammered on Tequila and Dos Equis and Corona that they can’t walk home straight and think that’s “celebrating Mexican heritage”, that’s disrespectful.
Thanks. I get tired of having to look that up.
Which would have found your peers in jail for assault. You’d still be wrong.
This is the single best post in this thread.
Clearly, many of you are so blinded by the presence of the flag that you cannot see anything else.
This.
Turning it into a patriotic flag thing is disingenuous. (Yes, this is based on a few assumptions, but I dare say the timing and the group-think of the friends at the table support it.) Turning it into a patriotic flag thing is particularly egregious because these kids were using it as a tool to offend. That’s not being patriotic, that’s not respecting the flag; that’s the essence of using it in vain.
I’m fine if your worldview keeps you from seeing that; no problem if you think these innocent little snowflakes were merely overwhelmed with patriotism that day. Lots of trolls come and go on the boards and lots of people protest their banning. Sometimes I do too. If you don’t see trolling in this case, if it truly is a complete absence of intent to incite, so be it—this is just a clash of opinions.
The people I don’t get (er, still fine and all, though since this is the Pit I suppose I should feign umbrage for having a different opinion and call you some names), is the people who notice/acknowledge the troll-dome of the kids yet think they shouldn’t have been told to knock it off. Good luck turning it into some sort of kumbaya-singing life lesson about tolerance. Sure. The flag-fapping-five were all about learning a lesson of tolerance and inclusion that day.
A critical element of my lack of condemnation of the principal is that this was in a school environment. While I firmly support the right to wear a “fuck the draft” jacket to court, in a classroom setting things are different. Not absolute in lack of freedoms, but in that limited scope there is wide range of leeway for heading off an incident–from distraction to clear signs of imminent violence. Do I think a girl should be sent home for wearing a nose ring or pink hair? No. Do I think a table full of sheet-wearing kids on MLK day should be sent home to change? Yes. Is the provocativeness of the flaggits closer to the former? Sure, but to me, still comfortably within the “hey kid, I know you’ve got a problem with CdM and all, but cut this shit out, you’re going to fuck up math class. Here’s a typewriter and a few inches in the school newspaper, make your point. But in the meantime, knock it the fuck off.”
It’s actually kind of the opposite – because some of the groups who tend to blanket themselves in flag imagery also tend to be nationalistic, xenophobic and/or flat out ignorant and stupid, other people have started to view it as a political symbol, rather than a national one. Which leads to ridiculous situations like the events in the OP, and ridiculous posts like:
Equally wrong? Really? Wow.
I’m quite certain the kids were trying to make a point by wearing the flags, my personal guess is that it was flat out trolling, and I absolutely think the school should have stayed the fuck out of it.
The students (assumed) trolling makes a stronger case for ignoring the clothes. You don’t fight trolling by letting trolls goad you into doing stupid things. Forbidding a student from simply wearing the country’s flag in a public school is a stupid thing to do, on all levels. First off, it’s wrong, since the behavior is well within a student’s basic right to free expression, even within a more restricted school environment. The goal of battling trolling does not supercede a student’s basic rights. Second off, it’s wildly ineffective, since if they are trolling, you’ve played right into their hands. A far more effective strategy would be to simply ignore the behavior. Either it goes nowhere, in which case who cares, or they escalate, in which case you have a perfectly defensible reason to punish them.
Focusing on the students’ motivations is like arguing that only nice people should have free speech or the right to an attorney or whatever. In a nation of laws, our opinions on whether someone “deserves” their rights is irrelevant.
See, this is what I don’t quite get. On the one hand you seem (and I could be accidentally mis-interpreting or mischaracterizing your post) to acknowledge that these kids are “baiting” others. On the other hand, the second quote seems to suggest that the kids were innocently wearing it as some sort of national statement, not a political one.
But baiting is baiting, and the flag was merely a convenient tool to do so (getting on Hannity was just gravy). I’m not buying the Magik Talisman approach to letting these kids continue to bait. +1 if the prinicipal did nothing and nothing happened. -1,000 if one of those kids got the smallest of scratches (or carved a B on their face). I know it’s cynical of me, but I don’t doubt that if the slightest thing happened to the kids they would have been just as quick to call the papers, and just as quick to jump on the terrorists from mexico bandwagon.
(leaving now, so if I don’t respond please don’t think I’m ignoring or ducking out of anything)
ETA: your last post arrived after I posted, sorry if this seems unresponsive.
Are you also assuming, that the kids who chose to wear Mexico’s colors were not motivated by patriotism, but rather motivated by trying to be offensive towards the kids in red/white/blue?
Does your ability to decipher people’s motives extend to the kids wearing green/white/red ?
Was their use of flag colors also a tool to offend?
I’m saying that even if the kids were intending a political statement by it, validating that view is a huge mistake, IMO. This goes for both the students and the staff at the school. As long as they’re just wearing the flag, and not saying or doing anything to put down or disrupt the Cinco de Mayo celebration, any politics involved needs to be left unspoken. A passive expression of identity should not be engaged in an active political fashion.
A similar situation would be if a school had a gay pride day, and a group of students wore cross necklaces. Some people would see that as a repudiation of the gay pride event, but that doesn’t justify preventing the students from wearing the crosses.
Naw, its the second hand smoke from your weed dude…
Oooh, and next you can hit him with the “where’s your tolerance for intolerance” argument. That’s always a winner, too.
*Eugene Volokh, a professor of law at UCLA, said the students are protected under California Education Code 48950, which prohibits schools from enforcing a rule subjecting a high school student to disciplinary sanctions solely on the basis of conduct that, when engaged outside of campus, is protected by the First Amendment.
If the school could point to previous incidents sparked by students who wore garments with American flags, they could argue that the flag is likely to lead to “substantial disruption,” Volokh said.
“If, for example, there had been fights over similar things at past events, if there had been specific threats made. But if [school officials] just say, ‘Well, we think it might be offensive to people,’ that’s generally speaking not enough.”
Volokh said the students and their parents likely have a winning case on their hands if they decide to take the matter to court.
“Oh yes, it’s almost open and shut,” he said.*
Link.