I Pit the First Gitmo Kangaroo Court Verdict

[Pjen]

A Nasty smell of hypocrisy

So one of the ‘worst of the worst’ ‘terrorists’ has been sentenced by the kangaroo court at Guantanamo…

From:

BBC NEWS | Americas | Hicks to serve nine months' jail

*Australian Guantanamo detainee David Hicks will be sent home to serve nine months in prison after being sentenced by a military judge at the facility.

Hicks, 31, was sentenced to seven years in jail after pleading guilty to supporting terrorism, but all but nine months of the sentence was suspended.
…

The former kangaroo skinner was captured in Afghanistan after fighting briefly with the Taleban.

He has already been held for more than five years at Guantanamo Bay.

Under a plea bargain deal with the prosecution, Hicks could only be sentenced to a maximum of seven years.

The judge at the sentencing hearing on Friday evening revealed that the plea deal also specified that any term beyond nine months be suspended.

The US must now send Hicks to his home country within 60 days - ie by 29 May.

As part of the plea bargain, Hicks also withdrew claims he was abused in US detention.

The Australian had previously alleged he was beaten by US forces after his capture in Afghanistan and that he had been sedated before learning of the charges against him.

Addressing the tribunal, he affirmed he had “never been illegally treated by any persons in the control or custody of the United States” before or after his transfer to Guantanamo in 2002.

US civil rights groups accuse Washington of a cover-up.

“The government is attempting to silence criticism and keep the facts of their torture and abuse of detainees from the public,” said Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights.

As part of his plea deal, Hicks has agreed not to speak to the media for a year, not to receive any money for his story and not to sue the US government.

At Friday’s hearing, he had to convince the military judge that his guilty plea was genuine and not just a tactic to return home to Adelaide.

However his father, Terry, said that was the only reason he had agreed to make the plea.

All of this smells of a hypocritical cover-up of US activities and an attempt to avoid any fallout- books, interviews, law-suits etc.

And I predict that every single court case will similarly smell of rank hypocrisy and extra-judicial considerations.

A kangaroo court is a kangaroo court.

Isn’t it fortunate for we ironists that the first person to be subjected to this process was a Kangaroo Skinner!

[Pjen]

An ex-python and extremely gifted ironist published this today:

Terry Jones: Call that humiliation?

Worth a read!

[Der_Trihs]

@Pjen

As part of the plea bargain, Hicks also withdrew claims he was abused in US detention.

The Australian had previously alleged he was beaten by US forces after his capture in Afghanistan and that he had been sedated before learning of the charges against him.

Addressing the tribunal, he affirmed he had “never been illegally treated by any persons in the control or custody of the United States” before or after his transfer to Guantanamo in 2002.

< snip >

As part of his plea deal, Hicks has agreed not to speak to the media for a year, not to receive any money for his story and not to sue the US government.

Ah, and of course this doesn’t even look a BIT suspicious. :rolleyes: Nope, no coverup, no abuse, nothing to see, go away . . .

I don’t know what he can get away with back in Australia, but certainly wouldn’t consider myself morally bound by any of those terms once I was out of America’s claws.

[Terrifel]

Tragically, by emboldening the resurgent Taliban forces in Afghanistan, this sentence will only result in more American troops being killed with marsupial pelts. They say you never hear the wallaby hide with your name on it.

Is “not speaking to the media for a year” a common plea bargaining chip?

[Der_Trihs]

@Terrifel

Is “not speaking to the media for a year” a common plea bargaining chip?

As far as I know, only when the guilty ones are the authorities and not the accused.

[Princhester]

I am reminded of Yossarian, who eventually reaches a deal with Colonel Cathcart and Colonel Korn: they will let him stop flying missions on condition that he “likes them”. Otherwise, no dice.

[David_Simmons]

i say let’s all go back to sleep, or watching American Idol. Someone will be along shortly to explain how this sort of thing is vital to national security and has made us safe for another day.

[jjimm]

Funny how whenever they go back to an ally in “the War on Terror” they do a few months or get released.

Can you say sub judice, Georgie?

…the only thing I know for certain is that these are bad people.

[Oakminster]

@Der Trihs

I don’t know what he can get away with back in Australia, but certainly wouldn’t consider myself morally bound by any of those terms once I was out of America’s claws.

That would be a mistake. If he violates the terms of his plea bargain, they can reinstate the original charges. Australia is a U.S. ally and would likely hand him over on request.

That said, this deal stinks. I’ve never heard of a restriction on talking to the media. Never heard of a “don’t sue us” clause in a plea bargain, either. I think what happened here is pretty obvious–he accepted a bullshit plea to get the hell out of Cuba rather than roll the dice with the Kangaroo Court. I don’t blame him.

I suspect that these “trials” will become known as a shameful period in American history, right up there with the internment camps we ran in WWII.

[Sublight]

Any of us been there?

No? Me neither.

But I know someone who has. I’ve got a friend in the Taliban, and he tells me that the amount of support they’re getting is sometimes more, sometimes less, depending where you are at any given time, than we hear from the fucking left-wing media.

Let’s all shut the fuck up.

[Oakminster]

@Sublight

Let’s all shut the fuck up.

*When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.*

First they came ... - Wikipedia…

[wring]

@Sublight

I’ve got a friend in the Taliban, (snip).

an admitted terrorist friend/sympathizer! anyone have a one way ticket to GITMO handy?

[jjimm]

@Oakminster

I’ve never heard of a restriction on talking to the media. Never heard of a “don’t sue us” clause in a plea bargain, either.

You would have if the US were following the example of the Israeli government.

[Hamlet]

@Oakminster

That would be a mistake. If he violates the terms of his plea bargain, they can reinstate the original charges. Australia is a U.S. ally and would likely hand him over on request.

Even easier than going back to being charged, if he does violate the terms, they have the 6 years 3 months of prison time that they suspended to impose. Rather than going back to just being charged, they can simply “unsuspend” the rest of his time.

@Oakminster

That said, this deal stinks. I’ve never heard of a restriction on talking to the media.

Nor have I, but I have used gag orders, if the case involved confidential informants or undercover officers.

@Oakminster

Never heard of a “don’t sue us” clause in a plea bargain, either.

I have. Generally in cases where the defense counsel has, as part of their defense, theatened to sue the police, prosecutors or the whole DAMN SYSTEM!!! In those cases, I’ve included agreements not to sue as part of the plea bargain.

@Oakminster

I think what happened here is pretty obvious–he accepted a bullshit plea to get the hell out of Cuba rather than roll the dice with the Kangaroo Court. I don’t blame him.

I don’t think it is a bullshit plea. I think he’s guilty. I think he was a low level soldier in Al Qaeda, and I think the evidence supports that conclusion. I have major problems with how the case was handled, the ex post facto issue, and the whole jurisdiction issue, not to mention the remainer of the uncharged detainees. But I think the plea wasn’t bullshit.

@Oakminster

I suspect that these “trials” will become known as a shameful period in American history, right up there with the internment camps we ran in WWII.

I think this belief is held by a great number of people in the world. And I put the blame for that squarely on Bush’s shoulders. We are now, and will continue to, reap the results of our loss of the moral and legal high road with regard to the detainees. Had our country did what was right from the beginning, these trials wouldn’t be the farce they have become. It would have been possible to have made them a shining example of our country’s commitment to justice and fairness. Instead, our chimp of a President has, yet again, screwed my country over.

[mhendo]

@Oakminster

That would be a mistake. If he violates the terms of his plea bargain, they can reinstate the original charges. Australia is a U.S. ally and would likely hand him over on request.

You’re probably right.

But, as i pointed out in this thread, where we’ve been discussing the Hicks case as it came to a head, the whole issue of Hicks’ detention has become one big albatross for the Australian government. The majority of Australians have always been against the Iraq war, and the numbers opposing it now are extremely high. Also, Hicks’ treatment has caused most Aussies to look with an even more jaundiced eye upon the Americans and their system of justice. The Aussie government has been under massive pressure at home, even from ministers and MPs within its own ranks, to do something about Hicks, and even the notoriously US-friendly foreign minister has expressed concern about issues of due process and the time it’s taken to get Hicks to trial.

This is a perfect example of the old bromide that justice not only needs to be done, but it needs to be seen to be done. Plenty of Australians believe that Hicks was, at best, stupid to do what he did, and at worst that he might actually be as bad as the Americans are saying. If the Americans had tried him in a fair trial, using acceptable procedure, within a reasonable amount of time, and had found him guilty and sentenced him to a bunch of time in jail, the majority of Aussies probably would have shrugged and said, “Well, that’s what happens when you train with the Taliban and Al Qaeda.”

But the whole thing has dragged on so long, and has become such a farce, topped off by the ridiculous and cynical conditions of the plea agreement, that the question of Hicks’ culpability has become almost irrelevant to the debate over his fate, at least in Australia.

If he violated the terms of his agreement in Australia, regarding the issue of speaking to the media, it would be a very brave Prime Minister who sought to return him to the United States. It would probably happen, in order to maintain the government’s friendly relations with the US, or at very least the suspended part of the sentence would be reimposed. But the PM’s popularity levels are almost at Bush-level lows right now, and he’s facing an election within six months. The Aussie government just wants this story off the front pages.

This piece from the Sydney Morning Herald has, i think, a good analysis of the whole situation, and the author sums up the situation thus:

The events of this week were the least worst result for the three stakeholders; the US Government, the Howard Government and Hicks himself.

The US Government got its first certified terrorist, a scalp it can hold up to say the military commission process is working, or “moving forward” as the spin goes. For the Howard Government, it’s one issue off the table. For Hicks, he gets the prospect of a more humane prison regime, with such things as rewards for good behaviour, television, and visits from family and friends. And, most importantly, a release date.

[Oakminster]

@Hamlet

I don’t think it is a bullshit plea. I think he’s guilty. I think he was a low level soldier in Al Qaeda, and I think the evidence supports that conclusion. I have major problems with how the case was handled, the ex post facto issue, and the whole jurisdiction issue, not to mention the remainer of the uncharged detainees. But I think the plea wasn’t bullshit.

I did not mean that the guy is innocent. I called it bullshit deal because it sounds very much like the U.S. realizes they’ve fucked up in a major way, and they’re doing everything they can to keep a real Court from ever getting a chance to do anything about it.

It’s kinda a touchy subject for me this morning. After I post this, I’ll be attending the funeral of a WWII vet. This ain’t the kind of “freedom” that man served to protect. Ain’t the kind of “freedom” I served to protect, either. It makes me wanna puke.

[Rufus_Xavier]

@Sublight

I’ve got a friend in the Taliban, and he tells me that the amount of support they’re getting is sometimes more, sometimes less, depending where you are at any given time, than we hear from the fucking left-wing media.

So the support the Taliban is getting (from who?) is sometimes more and sometimes less than reported? Is it ever exactly as much as is reported? Just curious.

[mhendo]

@Sublight

Any of us been there?

No? Me neither.

But I know someone who has. I’ve got a friend in the Taliban, and he tells me that the amount of support they’re getting is sometimes more, sometimes less, depending where you are at any given time, than we hear from the fucking left-wing media.

Let’s all shut the fuck up.

Hey, moron, what does your Taliban friend, or the levels of support for the Taliban in Afghanistan, have to do with the issue of Hicks’ detention, trial, and sentence?

[Rufus_Xavier]

@Sublight

Any of us been there?

No? Me neither.

But I know someone who has. I’ve got a friend in the Taliban, and he tells me that the amount of support they’re getting is sometimes more, sometimes less, depending where you are at any given time, than we hear from the fucking left-wing media.

Let’s all shut the fuck up.

Hmmmm. Parody? Perhaps. See here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8403430&postcount=5

[mhendo]

@Rufus Xavier

Hmmmm. Parody? Perhaps. See here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8403430&postcount=5

You’re probably right. Of course, parody only works if people know what the fuck you’re parodying.