I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1)

The BBQ Pit
2761

I daresay. But you are comparing apples and orangutans.

The unparalleled respect for your opinion may have a crushing effect on Dem voters, I cannot doubt that, you shine as the very paragon of sophisticated rationalization.

But that is speech, and is protected. It does not have the force of law behind it, you are not passing legislation.

This is legislation, this is using the mechanisms of law to a partisan end.

I am Leonard Pinth Garnell, and this has been another installment of Bad Analogy Theater.

2762

Which you hate.

When it disadvantages Democrats.

And which you enjoy, when it disadvantages Republicans.

So your complaint here is obvious. But I am unmoved.

2763

You are making an attack on 'luci without any evidence to back it up.

Why not rein that stuff in, Bricker?

2764

And after he’s been so generous towards me, too.

It’s meanness, that’s what it is. Pure dagburned Republican meanness.

But it’s true. I can see into his heart. Like the seventh son of a seventh son, only without all the tax deductions.

2765

Well, OK, what if it works?

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/measuring-the-effects-of-voter-identification-laws/

Here, Nate Silver suggests that these voter suppression tactics may lower Democrat voting by (maybe) a couple of percentage points. A couple of points of Dems who would vote, want to vote, but won’t. And if Romney wins by that margin or less? Then what? Well, then, the Republican Party will have openly, publicly, and veritably stolen the election, yes?

You stipulate that, yes,indeed, some Republicans are motivated by cynical political drives here. And, of course, you denounce, renounce and condemn such crude cynicism. Perhaps not as harshly as you rag on me and mine for insufficient dismay over Massachusetts. Actually, come to think on it, I don’t recall any such condemnation from you, but let’s be generous here, let’s assume you did, you are a man of principle, you’ve often said so. Principle, yes.

Suppose it works, then what? Something like it was all legal and constitutional, get over it, don’t be such a bunch of whiners, the people have spoken! And besides, the sacred voter confidence of Republicans has been protected, a sacrifice that Democrats should be eager to make, but no! Here you guys are, bitching about petty theft, bunch of liberal hypocrites. Something like that?

What if it works, and your guys actually steal the election? Will the last principled and honest conservatives quit the Party in disgust? Do you know any? What will you say to them?

“Will the last honest conservative to leave please turn out the lights, the Party’s over”?

2766

I wonder if I might trouble you for some evidence that elucidator has in fact supported, enjoyed, or posted with enthusiasm about partisan legislation that disadvantaged Republicans.

Otherwise your argument comes across as, shall we say, less than convincing here.

2767

So Republican voter registration shenanigans can be handled by local law enforcement, but Democratic voter registration shenanigans require a week of Congressional hearings?

2768

Don’t worry about it, hoss, I ain’t delicate.

2769

He’s STILL beating that deceased, battered and bruised nag, 27-fucking hundred posts in?

2770

Well, he made the same claim about me, and his evidence was that (a) he had never seen me post any outrage about the Massachusetts issue, and (b) when he peremptorily demanded that I express an opinion about said issue, and I attempted to refuse because I didn’t see the relevance of it, and figured that if there was relevance, the burden of proof was on him to demonstrate that relevance rather than just asserting it, he accused me of being intellectually incurious.

2771

By the way, on the topic of voter confidence, there’s a WAY WAY WAY bigger issue, which is electronic voter machines.

Suppose election day comes, and Romney narrowly wins Ohio, and the presidency, and some people with varying levels of trustworthiness claim that there are weird and inexplicable differences between exit polling and the actual voting counts returned, enough that they suspect foul play.

Well, with electronic voting machines with no verifiable paper trail, there’s just nothing to do about, is there?
I’m not someone who generally believes in conspiracy theories at all, but usually that’s because there’s plenty of evidence that the CT is false. But if someone comes up to me after a Romney victory and says that Ohio was stolen via electronic voter fraud, what possible evidence could there be in any direction to support or disprove that claim? Pretty much none… which does WAY more to harm voter confidence than any amount of voter ID hysteria.
I hope I don’t live in a country where a majority of voters prefer Romney to Obama. But that’s WAY better than living in a country where I can’t trust that the election is fair at all… and there’s no way to find out.

2772

Odd, it seems your stance on this issue is clear enough. You think that a law that hinders thousands of times as many people from voting as would commit in-person voter fraud is okay, because it hurts Democrats disproportionately. Unlike what you said in attack, this is backed up by your posts in this very thread.

You even lied and accused me of wanting to disenfranchise Republicans. I think even people as cowardly and un-American as you should be able to vote.

You’re not a good person, and your beliefs are mean. I think it’s more than fair to point out your vile positions. What isn’t right is making them up, like you did for 'luci.

Magic isn’t real. Like your bullshit God.

2773

I wonder why this issue has suddenly caused you to develop an interest in evidence for claims.

Tell you what: you scurry yourself back along this thread and demand evidence from some of your Comrades first. If you get it, then come talk to me.

2774

Yuk yuk, liberals are communists. Good one…

Anyhow, I’m curious what evidence you’d like. Part of what makes this issue so tricky is that it’s not just some cut and dried thing where if we were a bit less lazy we could make a few phone calls and come up with the Smoking Gun of Proof that clearly showed that this was a bad idea.

In fact, it seems to me that you and the general liberal consensus of this thread are in close-to-complete agreement on the facts… the disagreement is in interpreting them, and where various lines ought to be drawn. If an action has a plausibly legitimate justification, but also seems likely to result in a partisan advantage, when is it acceptable? Where’s the line where making voting more difficult becomes disenfranchisement?

Those are the points of disagreement, and they’re not ones that are particularly amenable to definitive evidence-based argument. (In fact, very few SDMB arguments really are… otherwise someone would present the evidence, and that would be the end of the argument.)

2775

How the hell you can get that from the extensive, detailed debunking we’ve provided about the problem he claims to be solving not even existing, or how his proffered solution wouldn’t address it even if it did exist, is beyond me.

2776

Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company

http://news.yahoo.com/romney-family-investment-ties-voting-machine-company-could-003209723.html

some machines that aren’t secure.

2777

Why bother? Jiggering with voting machines has to be risky, its a conspiracy, and conspiracy is risky. One guy shoots his mouth off bragging to his girlfriend, one gal is struck by conscience and blows the whole thing up. Every person involved in the plot and knowledgeable becomes one more risk. Why take that chance?

Far better to do it openly, brazenly, and bald faced. Trim back the Dem vote by legal means, laws, hindrances, complications. Which they have done.

Of course, your attitude would depend upon your view of Republicans. Are they sincerely deluded about “voter fraud”, despite the mounds of evidence? Are they deeply moved and committed to protecting our sacred voter confidence, or is this a cynical scam to steal elections? I lean towards the latter interpretation.

Friend Bricker accepts that some unknown and unknowable number of Republicans in this are motivated by electoral skulduggery. Commendable candor, it must be noted. And since he is not crippled by the collective hypocrisy of liberals everywhere, he goes on to renounce, denounce, and condemn such sordid doings. At great length, no doubt.

I would quote them for you, those firm and stern scoldings, wherein he sharply berates Republicans for such corruption, but can’t seem to find them. Perhaps when he can take a moment from his righteous crusade against liberal hypocrisy, he will point them out for us.

2778

I can’t even tell what the fuck you’re on about here.

You sound like a little whiny petulant child.

2779

At least **Starving Artist / NoLittlePlans **apparently eventually realized just what a sad laughingstock he had become, in his own all-too-comparable thread. **Bricker **doesn’t seem to be quite that self-aware yet.

2780

And he just used the “Comrade” tag-for criminy’s sake. :dubious: