I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1)

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Stratocaster

Now, this was interesting. I support voter ID laws, so long as they’re free and not a material burden. Someone needs to answer this question, ISTM.

Can’t they have a voter ID drive and set up stations in key locations that minimize this? That kind of thing? If voters don’t get ID because they can’t be bothered, I have no sympathy. The process needn’t be completely pain-free. But this sounds different (and wrong).

Huh. You know what’s funny? I’ve been pushing this argument for the entire thread.

The idea that some voters have immense burdens in getting ID is not pulled out of my ass. It’s entirely based in reality. It’s based on the fact that a multitude of people (of a sampling not likely to buck the 10% rate of lack of ID) simply live too far away from DMVs to get photo ID within reason. I was thinking closer to 30-40 miles (which is already terrible), but 120? Daaaaaamn. Uzi, can you look at that and say “if these people can’t get ID, they’re lazy”? Because if so, then you are stupid and wrong.

[Stratocaster]

Sorry, haven’t kept up with the whole thread (would be a full-time job!)…

[Uzi]

@Budget_Player_Cadet

Uzi, can you look at that and say “if these people can’t get ID, they’re lazy”?

Not and keep a semblance of credibility, no.

It makes me wonder why Texas (or any other place in the US) doesn’t make registries more convenient?
Back when I first got my driver’s license in Calgary, there were only a couple of places to do so. Now, after privatization, I could find a registry in almost every strip mall. The DMV concept seems so antiquated.

[elucidator]

Its marketing. The Pubbies pluck the strings of prejudices that people don’t even know they have. Ronald Reagan’s “welfare queens”, for instance.

“She has eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran’s benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000.”

According to Wiki:

…Since Reagan never named a particular woman, the description can be viewed as an example of dramatic hyperbole. The story appears to have been drawn from newspaper reports at the time, but critics have pointed out that the story grossly exaggerates a minor case of welfare fraud. In 1976, the New York Times reported that a woman from Chicago, Linda Taylor, was charged with using four aliases and of cheating the government out of $8,000…

Millions of people bought the story as solid truth, without a moment’s hesitation. Everybody has a brother-in-law who’s hairdresser knows somebody who… you know the drill. This way, they get you to look at it from the wrong end of the telescope. Then it isn’t “why is the Republican Party hindering the ability of poor people to vote”. Then its “Sure, its a problem for them, but they are lazy and feckless, and don’t really deserve to vote, not like you, not real Americans like you…”

Then voting rights become something else than a natural human right, but something to be earned, something you have to prove yourself worthy of. Rather then the opposite view through the telescope, that voting rights is something everybody already has, and something that can only be hindered or removed for good cause.

Gotta hand it to the Forces of Darkness. They have a really good Marketing Dept.

[Bricker]

@elucidator

Its marketing. The Pubbies pluck the strings of prejudices that people don’t even know they have. Ronald Reagan’s “welfare queens”, for instance.

According to Wiki:

Millions of people bought the story as solid truth, without a moment’s hesitation. Everybody has a brother-in-law who’s hairdresser knows somebody who… you know the drill. This way, they get you to look at it from the wrong end of the telescope. Then it isn’t “why is the Republican Party hindering the ability of poor people to vote”. Then its “Sure, its a problem for them, but they are lazy and feckless, and don’t really deserve to vote, not like you, not real Americans like you…”

I don’t really understand the objection. It’s true that Reagan’s recounting is more egregious than the actual crimes of which Linda Taylor was convicted, but we’re talking about multiple aliases and $8,000 in fraud, in 1977 – the equivalent of over $30,000 today. That hardly seems worthy of a tolerant chuckle and brushoff.

[Uncle_Jocko]

@Bricker

I don’t really understand the objection. It’s true that Reagan’s recounting is more egregious than the actual crimes of which Linda Taylor was convicted, but we’re talking about multiple aliases and $8,000 in fraud, in 1977 – the equivalent of over $30,000 today. That hardly seems worthy of a tolerant chuckle and brushoff.

So what would Reagan’s quote of “tax-free cash income is over $150,000” be worth today? Over $600,000? Apples to apples, you know … hardly seems worthy of a “tolerant chuckle and brushoff” of Uncle Ronnie’s folksy (and blatantly exaggerated) scare story.

I’m with BPC in this. I wouldn’t mind a system in place that requires the showing of ID to vote … IF the process to get said ID was streamlined, convenient and, basically, free. You want to have people prove they’re eligible to vote when they show up at the polls? Fine, I can get behind that. But don’t make it a burden for people to GET that proof. For most of us, waiting in line a few hours at the DMV is a hassle, but it doesn’t mean we don’t eat that day. For some people, it might.

[gamerunknown]

@Uzi

Bub, you don’t know what huge is.

You live in the Urals?

@Uzi

It makes me wonder why Texas (or any other place in the US) doesn’t make registries more convenient?

Federal spending bad, especially when it helps the lazy stupid retards (as evidenced by high melanin content) vote. Think someone else posted the following earlier.

@Paul Weyrich

I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.

[elucidator]

@Bricker

…That hardly seems worthy of a tolerant chuckle and brushoff.

Who did that? Did I do that? Where is my tolerant chuckle and brushoff, can you quote it?

Oh, wait, you don’t actually mean me, do you? Some other guy, maybe, some theoretical poster who may or may not actually exist and who very well might have said something very much like that.

Tell you what, if and when said theoretical guy shows up and says that, we’ll work in tandem ragging out on him. Until that time, how’s about you don’t make shit up? Works for me, how about you?

[elucidator]

Link dinky parlay voo for Paul Weyrich quote:

Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)

Glad to help, Gamey!

[VinylTurnip]

@Uzi

Texas is huge? Bub, you don’t know what huge is.

Neither does your… well, nevermind.

[gamerunknown]

@Bricker

That hardly seems worthy of a tolerant chuckle and brushoff.

What would the $1.2bn cost to taxpayers due to the collapse of Midwest Saving and Loans be in today’s money?

[elucidator]

[QUOTE=Cousin Vinny]
Neither does your… well, nevermind.

[/QUOTE]

i see what you didn’t do there.

[elucidator]

@gamerunknown

What would the $1.2bn cost to taxpayers due to the collapse of Midwest Saving and Loans be in today’s money?

These days? After AIG, Lehman Brothers, etc.? Chump change.

[Bricker]

@elucidator

Who did that? Did I do that? Where is my tolerant chuckle and brushoff, can you quote it?

Oh, wait, you don’t actually mean me, do you? Some other guy, maybe, some theoretical poster who may or may not actually exist and who very well might have said something very much like that.

Tell you what, if and when said theoretical guy shows up and says that, we’ll work in tandem ragging out on him. Until that time, how’s about you don’t make shit up? Works for me, how about you?

“Millions of people bought the story as solid truth, without a moment’s hesitation. Everybody has a brother-in-law who’s hairdresser knows somebody who… you know the drill.”

Of course, you probably think that constitutes a scathing indictment of Ms. Taylor.

[Bricker]

@gamerunknown

What would the $1.2bn cost to taxpayers due to the collapse of Midwest Saving and Loans be in today’s money?

I don’t know.

What name is given to the series of peace treaties that ended the Thirty Years’ War?

(What? Isn’t this Ask an Irrelevant Question Day?)

[elucidator]

@Bricker

“Millions of people bought the story as solid truth, without a moment’s hesitation. Everybody has a brother-in-law who’s hairdresser knows somebody who… you know the drill.”

Of course, you probably think that constitutes a scathing indictment of Ms. Taylor.

Why, no, I think it is an accurate assessment of what actually happened, and does not reflect any opinion on Ms Taylor whatsoever. Hell, for all we really know, he might not have been talking about her at all, its only that hers is the only roughly contemporaneous news report that even remotely fits his narrative.

As far as your capacity to figure out what I “probably think”, it would be best just to stick to the stuff I actually say, and preserve your creativity for other things. You are not telepathic, and even if you were, you aren’t likely to venture into my mind. You wouldn’t like it there. There are things in there, dark things, that mostly come out at night. Mostly.

[elucidator]

@Bricker

…What name is given to the series of peace treaties that ended the Thirty Years’ War…

Divorce court?

[xenophon41]

@elucidator

There are things in there, dark things, that mostly come out at night. Mostly.

I figure it’s not the dark skulky things that are so scary; it’s the dust and the clutter… and the resin… the resin!

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Uzi

Not and keep a semblance of credibility, no.

It makes me wonder why Texas (or any other place in the US) doesn’t make registries more convenient?

“It costs money” would be the obvious excuse, and lord knows that spending money to make voting easier is not on the “to-do” list of the party currently in power in Texas. But the cynic (and more importantly, the realist) in me thinks that this really makes a lot more sense when you think of what the overall republican strategy in terms of voting is. When you consider that they haven’t just made voting contingent upon something that 1 in 10 Americans don’t have under obviously bogus pretenses, but have also made it harder to register to vote, kneecapped groups like the League of Women Voters, closed DMVs in primarily liberal constituencies, shortened early voting, bragged about how voter ID law would “win them states”, and have done absolutely nothing to make absentee/mail voting harder (both of which swing heavily republican)… Well, the picture that comes together isn’t pretty. It isn’t pretty at all. Luci completely nailed it in his post a few posts ago, where he complained about “disenfranchisement” not being subtle enough. I cannot honestly believe that these voter ID laws are being pushed in good faith. I simply cannot. It just doesn’t add up in my mind.

Back when I first got my driver’s license in Calgary, there were only a couple of places to do so. Now, after privatization, I could find a registry in almost every strip mall. The DMV concept seems so antiquated.

Yeah, funny thing, you know how you were saying that Canada mandates voter ID? You remember how I pointed out that Canada is not the USA? This is what I was talking about. It’s just not that easy to get voter ID for a large number of people, and when it is called “necessary” to combat a threat which is as absolutely negligible as boots-on-the-ground voter fraud, you get a lot of people who start thinking, “Is this really worth my time?”

@elucidator

Divorce court?

Daaaamn, Luci is on a roll today!

[CannyDan]

I’ve had a Florida driver’s license, at first a cheap piece of pre-printed paper with my information typed upon it, since 1965. I don’t remember when such went from paper to laminated plastic bearing a photo, but I’ve had one continuously since then. And I’ve voted in every election since 1971. I also had a file box with important papers such as birth and death certificates, Social Security cards, and the like which has moved with me to/from a succession of houses over the decades. This year I must renew my driver’s license, as I have had to do periodically throughout this time period. In the past that was pretty simple. Present myself, surrender the old one, sometimes let them snap a newer picture, and leave with a new license after paying a nominal fee. My license is due for renewal this year, in my birth month a couple of months ahead. So I stopped in to the local DMV (yes, I’m fortunate to have one nearby) and made inquiry. Thanks to the efforts of our Republican legislators, the process is no longer simple. I have to present myself, and bring my birth certificate and my SS card.

Of course, now I cannot for the life of me find that damn file box. I’ve searched and searched, to no avail. I’m sure it will turn up, but likely not until after my birthday.

Now I am given to understand that this license renewal is in some way related to our state’s new Voter ID requirements. We are by gum gonna keep all those illegal voters from influencing our elections! If they can’t prove they are citizens, and have photo ID to boot, they can go suck eggs. Or something.

Except I’ve been a citizen since birth, and a voter and picture ID carrier as detailed above. I haven’t had plastic surgery, nor moved since the last election, or done anything different except allow time to pass. But my old DL, with my face on it in full color, is no longer good enough to prove that I am still me for the purpose of renewing it!!!

I just spent 45 minutes on-line accessing my birth state’s vital records department and, after paying $38.30, elicited a promise to attempt to send me an official copy of my birth certificate. When/if it arrives (caveats I had to agree to accept included not finding a match for me, as well as simple error on their part) I will then need to make an appointment at the SS office to plead for a replacement SS card. Then I’ll be able to try to renew my picture ID. If I’m lucky, all this will transpire before the Presidential election, though almost certainly not before our local primaries.

Am I disenfranchised? I guess not. But I sure as hell am inconvenienced. And I’ll probably be unable to vote in local races. Yes, my anecdote doesn’t constitute a data set. But it reinforces my being pissed off. I can get through it. But I have high speed internet, a flexible job, a car, money, and a college education (useful for interpreting and wading through government forms). That 10% of eligible voters who do not possess picture ID now (temporarily at least) includes me. So I can tell you first hand that we’re not all lazy, uninformed, non-contributing societal parasites.

I hope Bricker is happy with his enhanced confidence in hypothetical future elections. I’m sure that will make my travail worthwhile.