Funny how even advocates of gun control seem to dither over silly technicalities like you raised.
I don’t remember hearing a single Trumper or GOPer talk about how the border wall wouldn’t stop EVERY crime committed by an immigrant.
What are you basing that on? I know Texas is fucked six ways from Sunday, but if we’re going to trot out the idea that this purchase was typical we should back it up before we just shrug and move on. In fact even in Texas I’d wager this purchase was an outlier and an obvious red flag. Even if this is only slightly uncommon that should be enough of an excuse to warrant a closer look.
Why are you still yelling at me? I have agreed that YOU are 100% right and that a three day waiting period would have saved all of the victims.
If you could point out any time I ever said anything about that stupid border wall, please do so. I will wait with bated breath.
I did - didn’t find a state where bartenders are liable except where they either 1) serve someone who is visibly intoxicated or 2) served someone under drinking age. Of course, there are also some states that impose no liability on bars/bartenders at all , even if the person is visibly drunk
You brought up this “distraction” here
Common sense. Just like a bartender, you have the authority and obligation to prevent this. We allow civil suits against bar owners and bartenders if a person legally purchases and consumes more alcohol than is safe and proceeds to get into a drunk driving incident…why is this different?
Seems like isn’t so different - we don’t generally hold bars/bartenders responsible just because they served the drink. We generally hold them responsible when they served the drink to someone who is already visibly intoxicated or to someone underage. One of which is always the bartender violating the law and the other often is - but it’s always more than just serving the drink.
Sorry, not going to blame the seller if he acted within the law unless something more comes out - if the seller knew that Ramos, was violent or threatening, that’s another story. Ramos is to blame for this shooting and the people who refuse to regulate firearms in a way that would prevent this ( no one needs an AR15 for self-defense). If Texas has a “red flag” law ( which I doubt) then anyone who should have reported Ramos and didn’t shares some blame - but why should a gunshop owner be blamed when all he did was legally some firearms and ammo to someone who probably didn’t appear to be anything other than a garden variety gun-nut for whatever short amount of time he was in the shop?
CBS had a remarkably candid take on the sheer level of ordinance the kid walked in with and mentions the killer’s sister flatly refused to help him buy his arsenal. So yeah, at least one person in Texas had a little sense. I mean, you really ought to be able to check a database and conclude that maybe, just maybe, an 18 year old buying 1600 rounds of ammo and a shit ton of magazines might indicate a slight imbalance in the young man’s brain chemistry. And y’know–if I were a liquor store clerk I’d be a little askance at a 21 year old buying cases of liquor BUT I’d also temper that with the thought that he’s planning on hosting a birthday rager. Likewise, if I worked in a gun store I might be asking myself just what kind of party this dude was planning, y’know? Owning a brain and using it on the regular helps out with figuring out common sense shit like that.
Okay, maybe we should pump the brakes here. It seems like we have a bunch of people who agree that an 18 year old would-be mass murderer shouldn’t be allowed to buy an assault rifle now arguing with each other.
Let’s take it back to center: this is supposed to be a pit thread aimed at pkbites.
Betcha a cop size donut he wouldn’t have refused that sale.
Was it because he was 18 and wanted an AR-15, or was it because his sister knew he was disturbed whether or not he wanted an AR-15? I suspect the latter.
Kinda think this might have tipped her off:
During the news conference, McCraw gave a timeline of the suspect discussing his plans to buy a gun and shoot up the school. He asked his sister to help him buy a gun, but “she flatly refused,” McCraw said.
Not really rocket science here.
ETA: Too bad you can’t have someone put into a “no guns right now” mental hold if they’ve got active murder ideation, that strikes me as a pretty defensible position anywhere BUT Texas of course. And probably Florida. Because every teenager needs a shit ton of guns RIGHT FUCKING NOW and nobody in charge there can see a problem with any of this.
You are right and I apologize. If one is going to argue with gun nuts, it’s best to not argue about things that do not matter in that specific incident. I have spent many years discussing this sort of thing with gun nuts and I have gotten a bit of a handle on how to not allow them to get distracted by meaningless points.
Being attacked like I was did raise my hackles. That’s not an effective method of changing anyone’s mind.
Yup. This is not a generic gun control thread. We have a few of those. This is a pit thread about pkbites, who knows he would have helped the kids do this, so he decided to pluck a couple sentences of the distraught mother or of context and try to turn the blame to her.
To be fair: He just wanted to buy a gun and shoot up the school, not something that conservatives/Republicans/asshole fuckwits agree we actually need to stop, like him questioning his gender.
And he did that with a handgun.
Well, y’know, victim blaming is pretty squarely in the cop wheelhouse so big shockeroo there, right?
43 states plus DC have such laws
Whether they are commonly prosecuted or easy to win is irrelevant. And no, it’s not limited to underage drinking (though that makes the case a lot stronger). I don’t care about your ignorance of this. MADD was successful in making this a big thing for bars and state liquor boards to worry about. Funny how it never gets brought up for gun stores.
Then you can burn in hell with the rest of the child murder advocates.
You’re absolutely right, people have changed.
Back in the day, people would have been so horrified by just one of these events that they would have gladly supported evidence-based policy decisions that could prevent recurrences. In fact, we used to have stricter gun regulations, particularly at the local level (even in the South!), throughout the 20th century except the very end. Heck, the NRA used to support gun regulations.
Then certain people changed. Now certain people call a crying, confused mother a cunt while making a trite statement about semi-automatic weapons.
The first management course I had to take, and also in a few others over the years, there was a nifty little bit of information I learned: “There is no such thing as common sense”.
If you’re defending the gun shop owner (which the OP advocates for himself) you’re in the Pit to. They can all fucking fry.
Oh, right. Texas is the state that decided that its already overwhelmed and underfunded child protective services system should drop everything and go after the families of trans children, all the while failing to intervene to help the sort of failing/broken families like the one the Uvalde murderer came from.
You mean like when there were no background checks whatsoever. Or when you could buy a gun through the mail no questions asked using a fake name if you wished? Both those things happened in my lifetime. Draconian stuff.
And these types of weapons HAVE been around for more than a century. Perhaps we should be looking at why someone goes off their nut and commits evil acts against people that did nothing to them rather than thinking they won’t use a gun with several 10 round magazines, a couple of pump shotguns, or even several revolvers with fast reload moon clips when they can’t get ahold of a semi-auto with high capacity mags. Focusing on the tool will only force the psycho to change tools. No law, no ban, no restriction is going to curtail the 300+ million firearms already out there. That shipped sailed forever ago,
BTW. Some of you are really going to lose your shit when SCOTUS issues their expected ruling on New York State rifle & pistol association inc. v. Bruen. More guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Can’t have that!