What the fuck? I’m watching O’Reilly and they cut to Geraldo (look, I’m flipping around between channels, okay?) at the Convention Center. They have not evacuated one person from the Convention Center nor have they brough any water or supplies. How in the hell is it possible that as of FRIDAY NIGHT the people there STILL haven’t gotten any assistance? Jesus Fucking Christ.
You hit one of the nails right on the head
The other is the Mayor of New Orleans
It wasn’t Bush or Washington DC’s responsibility to develop a working evacuation plan for New Orleans. That responsibility belongs to the city & state. Other than declaring an evacuation order and deciding to open a death trap, what did the Mayor do? Did they attempt to evacuate any nursing homes or hospitals? Not that I’ve heard of. Any attempt at making transportation available to those without means? Nope - none of that either. This was the responsibility of the City and all they did was open a Hell Hole without ever considering how to feed & water the masses, much less how to handle the waste produced. If you want to take aim at somebody, the Mayor should be your target, not Bush.
So I’m not imagining things? The mayor and the governor haven’t done much besides wring their hands?
CNN says supplies have reached the convention center.
and
Doesn’t actually say they’ve evacuated anyone, but it sounds like the process has begun. Finally.
But see, that’s not leadership. In this case, leadership would have been, “You fucking guys are fired. Take your asses home, and the rest of you had better get me someone in here RIGHT NOW with a nutsack, or your heads roll too. You’re still standing here? RIGHT NOW.”
Nagin has to share some responsibility for being ill-prepared, but in truth, nobody in the world has the resources to be fully prepared for a worst-case scenario of this magnitude. Nobody. There is no electricity. There is no water. There is no sewerage. There is no infrastructure at all. Nagin has known since the storm blew over that local Emergency Response was utterly overwhelmed. He tried to declare martial law as early as Monday. Anyone who hasn’t heard it should listen to Mayor Nagin’s blistering, almost-panicky [url=“http://kiro.liquidviewer.net/kiro-od/mayornagin.asf”]interview[/asf] with WWL radio. He is so fucking out of his depth it’s not funny. Anybody would be.
As for Bush, I am normally very moderate, and usually give him the benefit of the doubt (sometimes I’ve regretted it,) but after that smarmy goddamned crack about rebuilding Trent fucking Lott’s motherfucking beach house and “looking forward to sitting on the porch,” I wouldn’t piss down that motherfucker’s throat if his guts were on fire. THERE ARE OLD LADIES DYING ON THE STREET, IDIOT! MOVE YOUR ASS RIGHT NOW! RIGHT FUCKING NOW! DON’T SIGN THAT BILL TONIGHT! SIGN IT RIGHT FUCKING GODDAMN NOW!
Ogre, you nailed it.
I consider myself moderate, too, and tend to take all the Bush-bashing with a healthy grain of salt. I didn’t vote for him, but I’ve always accepted him as my president. My natural impulse is to “rally around the leader” in times of crisis (or at least give him the benefit of the doubt). I know that earns me the automatic enmity of a lot of people on this board, but it’s the truth, and furthermore, it’s my own cross to bear.
I’m horrified by his “leadership” in this crisis.
His utter inability as a leader to emote human sympathy beyond religious platitudes - probably because he’s never had to deal with any kind of real hardship - has earned him my contempt. I could live with it if he were an emotional cold fish but an effective administrator and got help to these suffering, dying UNITED STATES CITIZENS!!! But the incompetency we’re witnessing on the part of our federal government is inexcusable, and as head of the federal government, Bush gets the blame.
JMO, I really think this is a tipping point, and I’m using myself as a bellwether. If someone who’s as square, as establishment, and has as much of a company guy mentality as me can feel this way, I imagine I’m not alone.
Um, Ogre? You realize that a society is based on law, right? We all knew that billions would be made available for recovery, but it has to be done in a certain way. Congress has to approve it. Imagine your response to Bush allocating a few billion to anything without approval from Congress. It has to be done in a certain order. That’s the way government runs. Not always the most efficient, granted, but that’s the way it is.
And you can’t start firing people in the first day or two after a disaster of this magnitude. Not those in leadership roles. they’re doing the best they can with what they have. What do you propose? Fire the guy that happens to be in office when the storm hits? And replace that person with whom? You better do it in about 8 seconds to keep the succession of help flowing to those in need. Oh, and forget about the message board dipshits that will come along to start a thread about your choise proving you are EVIL!!!111!!
Don’t be stupid. I recognize that it has to be done in order, but his lackadaisical “Oh, I’ll sign that there bill tonight, but for now, a thousand points of light!” crap is insupportable. This is a crisis. He should have been waiting outside the House chambers for that bill to come out, and he should have signed it on his aide’s back.
And we pay Chertoff’s salary for this sort of thing. If he didn’t have every available Navy Zodiac, johnboat, canoe, and swamp buggy on the way to the Superdome to truck the sick and elderly out to one of those shallow-draft barges they reopened the Port of New Orleans for, the second the Port was reopened, he should be thrown out on his ass. Nagin asked for Federal assistance on Monday. He got jack shit.
HeelB4Zod, I assume you think Kerry or Gore would have been able to sprinkle the pixie dust on this whole situation? The trucks and busses couldn’t get to the city any sooner. You see, we had the same problem up here. The vehicles can’t get across flooded bridges. Planes can’t land on Bourbon Street. There was no way for a massive relief effort to enter the city. What of that do you just not understand?!?
In case you haven’t noticed it being pointed out over and over and over again, the relief starts with the city and state. Maybe you can comprehend (maybe not) that the Federal government exists to ensure national security and soverignty. The big ones include defense, transportation, energy and the like. When a disaster hits, the city begins the efforts. If needed they call upon the state, and if that isn’t enough they need other states and Washington to get involved.
You see, this is why not every tornado, hurricane, flood and blizzard qualify for federal aid. Never have. It has to be a situation where the local resources are simply overwhelmed. Again, I’ve experienced it. I’ve lived through it. I’ve seen first hand the effort and the limitations of those efforts. I know what the fuck I’m talking about in this case.
You just cannot, under any pie-in-the-sky scenario you dream up, get help to that many people that quickly. Keep in mind the aftermath of places like Kobe, Japan. I seem to remember there was a little trouble there awhile back. Did everyone have 3 hot and a cot in 4 days?
duffer, you’re a politician at heart, and that’s the worst thing I can think of to say to you.
Ogre, have you seen the actual flooding outside the Superdome? The water isn’t deep enough for a boat to get to it. And where it is deep enough is too far from accessable roads for trucks to get the people there.
I know it’s hard to fathom in the US, but we’re just as hostage to a natural disaster as the rest of the world. We’re just so used to a lifestyle that offers us enough food and free time with an internet account to bitch about shit on a message board that we forget that many people are living in mud huts hoping the rains come so they don’t starve.
Some things in life can’t be done no matter how much money you throw at it. Evacuating thousands from downtown New Orleans is one of them. Do you think the government is using this as a way to kill off some undesirables? If that’s the case, you need to look at the governor and mayor.
I, however won’t place blame. I just pray (oh no! Religion!) that those people make it out alive. But go ahead and gain political points in your mind. Free country and all that.
Thanks. That’s the nicest thing anyone has said on these boards for a long time. Of course, it doesn’t have the impact on my life you may be hoping for. I’ll keep you in mind when I finally take over. 
The Ritz-Carlton payed for the buses – they were hired privately. They also evacuated their staff, not just the rich white customers.
Private businesses & organizations are the ones getting something done, at least in these early days.
Obviously, you have never ridden in a johnboat or swamp buggy, both of which are made to float (in the case of a johnboat) in inches of water or (in the case of a swamp buggy) dry fucking land, if need be. Lousiana has thousands of both. Don’t give me excuses. Mobilize them.
What’s changed between now and yesterday? And the day before yesterday? And the day before that day? Why now is it possible for a massive relief effort to finally begin?
The media had no problem entering.
It makes no sense what you’re saying.
And after dodging bullets and people sinking them in an effort to climb on board, what highway do they take them to? Where do they go from there? And where are the captains coming from? The Carolinas? Florida? Surely you don’t think there are enough people in NO that not only have access to the boats, but can actually pull this off.
And the Coast Guard or Navy? Sure, they can help, but you have to give them time to get there. Are you suggesting these small watercraft be moved into the area hit before it was hit? Seems to me that any boats that can be used are going to take a few days to get there. And again, once the people are on the boats (a few at a time based on the size) where do they go? Seriously, I’d like to honestly know if there is anywhere to take them that will get them out of the city faster.
And you seem to have all the answers. Why aren’t you in charge of anything like this? I’ll wager it’s because you don’t comprehend the reality of what is happening. That’s not an insult in any manner. Hell, I’m not qualified to be in charge and I’ve been through the same thing. Forget nationality, politics, religion; we are still just people that can’t control everything that happens. We adapt, we do our best, and most of us wait for the bodies to cool before trying to score political points.
And** monstro**, do you not understand the difference of getting a reporter into a city versus getting tens of thousands out? There were cameramen in downtown filming the building I work in burning to the ground while we were watching the footage in Minot. It happens like that. Reporters go where the news is. I guess it would be better if they weren’t there showing us what is going on. Without the footage, I probably could have distanced myself and saved the $100 I sent to the Salvation Army yesterday. Plus, we wouldn’t have so many shittings around here of how Bush is to blame.
Enjoy your moment to shine.
And you seem to be a yes-man for any sort of gross incompetence.
What’s your fucking answer to it then? How many times do I have to say that I’ve lived through this shit? I know personally what is happening with the relief effort. What the fuck are you doing other than sitting in your comfy home bitching about it? What would you do different now that you know the effects of something that has never happened before? You have the benefit of hindsight, yet you still can’t tell us what the optimal response would be. Is the DU site down tonight?
You know, I’m sick of this. It’s not coming just from you but a bunch of people on the 'Dope.
I’ve been watching the news and listening to reports. I have not heard of massive riots or crazy mobs attacking rescuers. The reporters on the scene have said that the fear about violence and chaos has been generally unwarranted. I keep hearing about someone shooting at a helicopter. Was that a single isolated incident? It sure seems like it. So why do we keep hearing about it?
What it sounds like are people are either truly afraid of their own countrymen or they are repeating the “They are so violent!” mantra so as to justify the delay and assuage their feelings of guilt and shame.
These aren’t foreigners or enemy combatants. They are old people, children, pregnant women, young fathers, teenagers, handicapped people, sick people, hungry people, and very demoralized PEOPLE. Only a small minority have taken up arms. They shouldn’t and don’t have enough power to keep the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD from sending in the Cavalry. Yet this is the tired excuse they keep cramming down our throats.
It’s not swallowing it!