http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=33794,1,22
Excuse me? Look, fuckers, we have our fair share of problems, but before you go pointing fingers at us try sorting out your own shit first. Human rights violations infuckindeed. You dare to lecture us about human rights violations? Fuck you. The US government has no credibility when it comes to human rights (clue, it starts with a G), so keep your fucking report to yourselves.
Or better yet, shove it up your collective arses.
Fuckers.
In 1997, the last year I could find, the murder rate in South Africa was 59.3 per 100,000.
In Washington, D.C., it was 56.9.
In Toronto, where I more or less live? About 1.8.
And if we compare the 2 countries as a whole (instead of comparing a country against one district) ? 6.8 per 100,000 for the US.
I have some reading for you. Evidently it hacked off somebody in China also:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-03/08/content_5817027.htm
I fully support rights for ghumans.
Thanks, Ludovic, for making me laugh in the midst of my own rant.
To be sure, we have a HUGE crime problem in SA. We all (except Mbeki, of course) know that. And it’s not just the levels of crime, it’s the utter viciousness of some of the crimes that is numbing. But if you (general you, US State Department you) are going to dabble in hyperbole, best you take that galleon out your eye first.
Do you have any idea why?
Apparently, the current Chinese definition of “rampant” is “four or more.” :rolleyes:
I think you missed his point, which is too bad - it was a good one.
The U.S. and South Africa have a nasty shared history when it comes to human rights. Maybe they should both shut the fuck up and work on it.
Except that a crime problem != a human rights problem as the latter term is generally understood.
I can see where excess crime would cause a human rights crisis. And the linked report says the problem is partly the SA government’s fault. It might be straining the edges of the category, however.
No I didn’t miss his point. I was just saying comparing a whole countries murder rate to one states isn’t a fair comparison.
Jeez, RickJay, you’re letting down our side. Get off your ass and go murder someone.
Here’s another article
No one despises the current administration more than I do but if you read the report by country some are shocking. (I don’t see a report for the U.S.) Do you think report is inaccurate? It’s required by U.S. law to file a report each year.
Here’s a breakdown by country.
Apologies for the delay in responding.
Brainglutton, just so I can answer your question accurately, are you referring to the levels, or the viciousness?
Caridwen, I don’t doubt the statistics. In fact, my cynical side suspects that they are understated. I feel that the government is in denial about crime, and is not doing enough to ensure that ordinary citizens have the protection of the judicial system. Ordinary citizens have very little faith in the system. Yes, if your name is Rattray, you can get an arrest, charge, conviction and sentence within 10 days. Or if your name is Winnie, arrests are made within hours. But if your name is Sipho from down the street, you’re lucky if your file makes it to the detective’s desk in 10 months.
In a recent high-profile stand-off between big business and the government regarding crime, there was a very strong indication that a particular bank was told to “STFU or else”. It was only after this incident and the subsequent outcry that Mbeki begrudgingly conceded the point.
What I object to is, and no disrespect to Americans in general, if one is going to pass judgement on another, best one makes sure that one’s own record is squeeky clean. The US is in no position to point fingers at anyone regarding human rights, given their current administration’s misdeeds. If it is law to issue the report, fine, but then issue a factual report, not one loaded with innuendo and holier-than-thou observations.
Crime is everyone’s responsibility, not only the government’s. To equate the crime problem to a governmental human rights violation is a stretch, and a long one at that.
But no one’s is. Does that mean everybody deserves a pass?
Both.
Marley23, good point, and no, no-one deserves a pass. In my view, each government is a player in the game called Life on Earth, and the game needs a referee. Let’s appoint a referee, maybe even the United Nations, who, according to an agreed formula, can issue a report. If there is judgement to be made, then let it be made by the referee. This way the scorecard will have some credibility.
BrainGlutton (apologies for the last typo in your name), I think the levels could have something to do with the high unemployment rate. At last count it was in the region of 27%.
http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3454802&fSectionId=609&fSetId=662
I also think that we are taking strain with an influx of immigrants from neighbouring countries, who have moved here because of political/economic instability in their own countries. This causes a strain on SA’s economy, and the ability to provide employment for all. Last week I read of a case involving Somali businessmen being run out of town by the locals, their businesses ransacked and looted, allegedly under the watchful eye of the police.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=300957&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/
There seems to be a high rate of “xeno-anger” towards Zimbabweans, Mozambicans and now Somalis. I often see reports where it is alleged that the crime was committed by Mozambicans. SA’s most wanted criminal, Annanias Mathe, is apparently a Mozambican. And then, of course, there is corruption. The Mathe escape from C Max reeks of cho cho.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=301178&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/
As for the viciousness, this is the eternal perplexing question. I don’t know.