Oh my God, I have to go lie down.
Next you’re going to tell me Carol Stream is actually a nun.
No twin sets? Kill me now. I suppose next you’re going to tell me you don’t wear sensible shoes, either! What the hell is this world coming to??
I have to say that I think RedheadDragynLady sounds exactly like she was born a Doper. Seriously. 
We are admittedly a snarky, feisty place, and actually I think you’re gonna fit right in. That’s a compliment, BTW. 
And, you’re not the first newbie who stumbled upon us and who had kind of a bumpy ride their first few outings. Experience dictates that once those folks find their level, and their voice, and settle in, they are notable contributors to the boards.
So, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board. Stick around.
According to what I’ve found on google, the WIC eligibility in the OP’s county is the same as it is throughout my state: individuals below 185% of the federal poverty line (income based on family size). A family making 184% of the poverty line is probably not spending $2 more on formula instead of buying the kids other food. There are a lot of people who are eligible who don’t avail themselves of the services, but they could if they wanted to.
When I did Americorps*Vista WiC was one of our primary service receivers because we’d attend clinics to read with kids, teach them simple art projects and give them free books while they waited with Mom or Dad to get their monthly allotment. 85% of the parents who came in were adults in their 20s to 40s, and most worked. Most of them weren’t on WiC as long as they could have been, just long enough to get through a rough patch.
Like my family, for example. My parents were both working when they decided to have a second child. But when my mom was 6 months pregnant, my dad was laid off. He’d been making more money than my mom, so it was a bad situation for us to find ourselves in. Dad’s job had been the one our health insurance was tied to, so my parents found themselves having to pay for my brother’s birth out of pocket (which is probably why my parents chose a midwife birthing center, it was cheaper.) By the time my brother was one my dad had a decent job again, but WiC really helped out until then, especially considering how sickly my brother was as an infant.
One thing I’ve learned from all of this is that WIC is pretty confusing in the sense that there doesn’t seem to be one system for the whole country. Which actually surprises me, because from what I’ve seen and heard, it’s one of the most well-run and successful of all the government programs for the needy (of course, being the most well-run of those is probably setting a relatively low bar! 
) I have to give up on the pitting because I no longer know who to pit…is it the program administration, the recipients, the formula companies? I don’t know. I can’t say it doesn’t still irk me a tad bit…especially in the middle of the night when I’m mixing formula…but I’m not the type anyway to spend my time or energy fuming over this kind of thing.
One thing I’ve been thinking about in the context of all of this is the idea that the formula companies are behind it. I don’t know if they are or not, but if they are, why don’t they give out free samples of the RTF stuff to new moms, the way they give out the powdered stuff? I would think that people who are paying cash would be a much better target audience to go after with trying to sell the most expensive form of the product. They give out the powdered stuff willy-nilly…I think I got 3 or 4 free cans when each of my kids was born, but never have I been given any of the RTF stuff.
They do, at least around here. The babies I know have been sent home from the hospital with several six-packs of individual serving RTF formula (you can screw a bottle top and nipple right onto the little bottle). Most of the moms I know breastfeed, but they take them anyway, and stick a couple in the diaper bag for emergencies.
I think some of the program’s success does come from the flexibility each state is given to administer it. When the government on a national level tries to administer things on a local level… you get monstrosities like the food stamp or medicaid program. Good in and of themselves, but not that hard to abuse.
I wouldn’t put the blame completely on the formula companies, but I guarantee you that if the focus of the WIC program ever switched, they’d raise a stink about it! and there’s certainly a lot of formula advertising when I sit in the office for pickup or certification.
I can guess why not the RTF stuff in the free samples: It’s not cost effective. It weighs more per ounce, and it costs more for a reason… they genuinely can’t afford to throw it away. They have a lot of money to throw around, but sending sample RTF would probably not be terribly wise. Doesn’t it come in glass bottles, usually? Or can you get it in a can? Plus there’s the danger of breakage… if the powder cans break in shipping, it’s a powdery mess. If liquid did? Ick.
Best way in the world to get those free formula and checks, though? Sign up as a breastfeeding mom. They LOVE to send you samples then…
Awww how cute, she’s maaaaaddddd. Poor baby.
I do feel sympathy for you sweety, because you are on the defensive and obviously not at the place you want to be in life. That’s sad. I never gave any advice, I just shared thoughts and experiences. I never bitched about anyone buying steaks on foodstamps. And I am so far from entitled that it’s not even funny.
I’m just a working stiff like the next person. But you are so angry at the world that you can’t see anything. So if someones dares to state an opion that doesn’t match yours to a tee, you automatically ASSume that they’re entitled, against food stamps, looking down on you, etc.
Yes my patients need my help, I am their NURSE for crissakes! And if not me, then it would be another nurse. I don’t claim to be the ultimate RN, the only one who can take care of their needs :rolleyes: . I don’t patronize my patients, I simply said that some of them made poor choices in life. That is a fact. It’s not a judgement. Some of them had shit handed to them, that’s also a fact.
If you want to remain in your fantasy world and think of me as an ass, go right ahead. I busted my tail to get where I am. I went to nursing school while working full time. I now work two jobs , one to pay the bills and one for fun. And I have an ambitious nature, I fully intend on returning to school for my Master’s Degree. No one handed me shit. Am I proud of myself? Your damn right.
But do I look down on anyone else? Hell no. I treat everyone else in my day to day life with the same respect. We are all equals. You are the one with the problem sister girl. Your self esteem needs some work or you wouldn’t be so defensive. Chill out and do what you need to do for yourself and your family.
Nah, not really. I haven’t been mad since my initial post. I even apologized to you up there somewhere.
Not angry at the world. In general, I’m a pretty laid back person. With a nasty temper, unfortunately. I just get bloody tired of being told what to do by people who have no idea what it’s like. And it’s not when people disagree with me. It’s when they act like asses.
And I was to know you’re a nurse… how? I’m good, damn good… but not psychic.
My what damn right? Kidding, kidding, I promise not to get into grammar snark. I’m proud for you. I genuinely am. As I said before I already apologized up there. So far, you’ve actually been the only person that I’ve noticed that actually unleashed a personal attack at me. -that- is what led me to believe you were an ass.
My self esteem is fine, I’ll thank you. What what “do I need to do for myself and my family”, exactly?
I missed the edit window on my last post and that was before reading this post.
Fair enough. Yes I missed the income thing in your post but I really didn’t think that was such a big deal to the whole gist of what I was trying to say.
It’s hard to convey tone and complete meaning on message boards. Obviously you took it one way when I was trying to convey it another.
I am from “the hood”. I know what being poor is like. And I wouldn’t say we’re “swimming in it” now. We’ve run short some weeks. We’re living on one paycheck right now so SO can finish school quicker. We have one 5yr. old car. We haven’t taken a vacation in years. No entitlement here.
I do what I can to help by volunteering my time. But I am only one person.
Well, I can certainly apologize for the “entitled” comment. You’re not.
I don’t know that it’s specifically the formula companies that are behind WIC. The program was first proposed under LBJ’s “Great Society”, but not officially implemented until 1972. There’s a brief history of the program here. It’s supported by federal food subsidies, which benefit many other food producers besides just the formula companies.
If you don’t mind that it comes from the Cato Institute, there’s an interesting short discussion of WIC here.
Heh, everytime I see this thread in the forum, I think “why would anyone pit Willard International Consulting?”
For those who don’t get the reference, it’s a fictitious company that fields a secretive paramilitary force that fights demons, ghosts, aliens, etc. that was made up for a fanfic called “The Return” by Sunshine Temple (it’s on fanfiction.net). It’s an interesting work, because while the main heroes are based on characters from Ranma 1/2 and Sailor Moon, most of the antagonists are entirely original, many of the supporting protagonists are, and the story is radically removed from either series (having more of a Tom Clancy meets Hellsing* feel to it). It’s also fun because the author routinely slips subtle references to all kinds of other series (one of WIC’s agents is the kid who was obsessed with horror movies that killed Jason all grown up) in too.
…Sorry, went off on a tangent. I just thought it was a funny mix-up.
*the anime
Sorry! I didn’t mean that they were behind WIC, but that they are behind distributing the RTF formula to the WIC program because it benefits them by keeping the ready-to-feed market going (as miss elizabeth suggested back somewhere on page 3 or so). The WIC program itself is a different story. But there’s nothing on earth that could cause a good program to get screwed up faster than big business and government working together, each with its own agenda.
I have only been skimming this thread, really, going straight to my favorite posters to read their posts. But this quote really jumped out at me. My apologies in advance if I am repeating some sentiments laid out by other posters.
My mother became a Certified Nurse’s Aide when I was 5. She worked very hard to provide for us. Sometimes my dad had a job, sometimes my dad had a drug problem. Through it all, my mom worked.
Now she is 62. She has worked her body to the bone. Both knees have been replaced, her hands are crippled with arthritis, her blood pressure is high and diabetes has a hold of her. She has gone out of work, several times and she is barely making it, with help from her children.
She has made tax mistakes in her past that have caught up to her. She is much poorer than she would be had she been wise and eductated to begin with. Still, I have been unable to convince her to go and get help. She won’t do it because she is ashamed. It is the attitude that you express that causes her shame. But why should she be? Why should anyone? This system is set up for those of us that are doing well to help those that aren’t. One day, even the wisest planners and hardest workers among us may need help.
When you sneer at some women spending her foodstamps at the grocery store, do you consider that perhaps she has paid into the system for years? Or do you assume that she has never held a job and paid taxes? If you assume that she hasn’t, I wonder why.
If that was true then and there, it is not true here (where I am) and now. Each coupon comes with a particular amount and you can’t spend more than that.
-FrL-
Ya know…just because a mom is on WIC doesn’t mean that she’s not working and in need of the convenience of ready made as much as any other hardworking, pressed for time mom.
Once upon a time, about 17 years ago, I worked three jobs (all part time one of them at the University where I went to school) and went to school full time 15+ credits per semester. I got pregnant my last semester, but even with three jobs, I was still poor enough to qualify for partial assistance, including WIC. I hated the whole thing so much that at the first penny that put me over the limit, I opted to have the non-baby members of the family subsist on Top Ramen, but still the system IS there for a reason.
Not everyone using the system is a lazy welfare mom popping out baby after baby just to increase their monthly check. Though I DO understand the irritation with that sort from the perspective of those of us who work our asses off.
Well, take out pettiness and I can honestly say that this describes me. I don’t feel like I’m a better person than anyone though nor do I feel something not mortal.
I admit to pettiness but usually of the brief but powerful emotions but like Biggirl said, I don’t let that pettiness rule my emotions. I don’t want to be the type of person who would actually do something petty to someone so I try not to.
Now, the one thing I wanted to discuss was the OP. Are you saying that with WIC the people in your daycare are making more money than you when you consider their normal income and their WIC added?
If you are, then I can appreciate your rant ( agree? not so much ) and it’s a valid point if you’re keeping score that way.
If, on the other hand, they’re not, it appears the rant is incorrect. The cost of the expensive formula isn’t variable. It costs you and them exactly the same amount of money and since you have more money than them, really, they are sacrificing more of their budget for their kids to have this than you would.
The real answer, the one we can’t possibly know, is how the nutrition needs of the household is being met. If this family can meet the nutritional needs of the mother and the child and still have enough money in their pocket to throw in a bit of convenience then I say more power to them.
If they can’t, then something surely needs to be done but I don’t feel that the thing should need to be dealt with by limiting the availability of products from the program.
Oh, and in my life I have had several opportunities to avail myself of public aid and with the exception of a very brief period of my childhood I have never drawn. I’m including unemployment too.
I will gladly give ( in thought ) all of the money that I have never collected but been due to the mothers at your daycare so they can buy the more expensive formula. I don’t know an exact figure but lets just say 5 so the next five times you see these mothers with it you can smile and think “that one’s covered by TheHangedMan” and not let it get you down that day.
I wish I could cover more than in thought because you deserve 5 bottles too but alas, thoughts are my only lucre at this time.
Because their circumstances took a bad turn from well-planned to financial disaster beyond their control?
Well, let’s see now, I’ve been paying around 15,000 bucks a year in taxes for about the last 15 years. I’ve more than covered the year and a half I received partial benefits.
Some of you folks are talking out the sides of your faces. You have no way of knowing which recipients are working their way out of bad circumstances and which ones are just bums who happen to like being worthless bums.
Though in the case of the other parents in the OP, if they’re bringing their kids to daycare, they must be either working or going to school, not exactly typical “welfare bums”.
That said, I’m normally on the side of “rah rah!! go away bums who want to be taken care of and not have to work or be responsible”, but the issues described in the OP do not (as described) fall under those circumstances.