I totally get it. The Laws of Attraction don’t say anything is anyone’s fault. It’s just that they’re responsible for what happens to them. It’s perfectly reasonable.
Wikipedia on Law of Attraction: "…a pseudoscientific belief or theory, that “like attracts like,” and that by focusing on positive or negative thoughts, one can bring about positive or negative results.[1][2][3][4]
For example, writer Lisa Nichols suggests that if a subject opens an envelope expecting to see a bill, the envelope will “confirm” those thoughts and contain a bill when opened. A person who decided to instead expect a check might find a check instead of a bill." Law of attraction - Wikipedia
See also: Positive mental attitude.
In Ball Four, baseball player Jim Bouton praises the power of negative thinking: More conversation about positive thinking today. When I pitched in the World Series in '63 and '64 I won two out of three games and the only thought that went through my mind before and during the game was, “Please don’t let me embarrass myself out there.” No thought of winning and losing. If you told me beforehand that I would lose the game but it would be close and I wouldn’t be embarrassed, I might well have settled for that. I was terrified of being humiliated on national television and in front of all my friends. Now that’s certainly not positive thinking and yet I was able to win ballgames. Maybe there is a power to negative thinking.
You assume I have a position. I said right up front: explaining, not promoting, not defending.
The questions that were asked were answered in what I already wrote: if someone reads what I wrote, ignores two-thirds of it, holds up the remaining third and says: “So this is the entirety of it, right?” I’m not interested in wasting my time saying it seven different ways or walking them through what’s already there. I’m just not sufficiently invested in this particular topic to bother. Besides, if they want to ignore a & b and decide that c is all there is and that it means X, I’m pretty sure they are going to do that no matter how many ways I explain it.
I happen to have a lot of information about these topics, so I wanted to add the explanation to the assumptions and incorrect characterizations being bandied about. I knew full well that once I had done so, people were guaranteed to do what they do, and if anyone has a genuine interest in a deeper understanding of the ideas underlying the pop, the resources are endless and endlessly varied.
If someone wants to debate the subject, they’ll have to look elsewhere.
First, I didn’t say what I highlighted was the entirety of what you said. But, it seems quite clear to me that one thing you did say was that having fear can cause your child to get cancer and die, and if you’re not going to explain why I’m wrong about that, then I have to assume that I’m not.
I have to say, though, I do understand your reluctance to defend the indefensible.
Actually, the thing that damns the “Law of Attraction” is the latter part of my post:
The universe does not give the tiniest of fucks about your positive thinking.
Yeah, well, picking one thing and leaving the rest looks like exactly what I described. The balance of the sentence you seized on was
So your decision to make an issue of one part of that sentence and ignore this part made me feel pretty confident that you weren’t really looking to understand anything, you just wanted to spar about it. Which is fine, but I just don’t.
You don’t need to direct your issues with it at me personally, you know, that’s what this thread is for, after all. Rip away.
Well, the rest of what you said is just babble that seems to be repeating the first part: “…connections might lie?” Connections to what? Seems like connections to the bad thing that happened…so, your fear, thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc. are connected to the bad things that happen to you. OK, so what part am I not understanding again?
And, I’m not directing this at you, personally, I’m directing it at what you said.
Does the universe “give a fuck” about anything at all? Hard to say… but in any case, the idea that the universe “gives a fuck” isn’t part of the ideas behind the law of attraction…that was the point I was making before about judgment. It’s not like prayer, where if God thinks you deserve it or likes how you asked or whatever, you get what you ask for. The universe is neutral, just responding to whatever message comes through the strongest through repetition, intensity of emotion (positive or negative, makes no difference) vividness of visualization, degree of expectation, etc. Or, if you believe it to that degree, whatever your spirit has decided to manifest next for whatever reason.
Kinda like a big star trekkian replicator/holodeck…
A lot, I guess. <shrug> Does it really matter to you? Check out the stuff I linked, boatloads of information there that will make it clearer for you, since I’ve failed.
Well, obviously. I mean, if something bad happens, and you think it’s your fault, then you’re responsible for thinking it’s your fault, right? So why do that? You can instead use The Secret to wish yourself a feeling of blamelessness! (Don’t tell me The Secret doesn’t work like that; I wish it does, and so it does; I hereby attract sweet vindication!)
No. Inanimate matter has no fucks to give.
This is crazy new-age bullshit, for the record.
Duly noted. I’ll let the alien commander know…
If you think those links make things clearer, you are sadly mistaken.
C’est la vie.
In order for the universe to ‘respond’ to anything at all, wouldn’t it have to give a fuck? The universe can’t be neutral and also responding to emotional energy, that’s a contradiction. When you respond to someone’s emotions, whether they are positive or negative, are you being neutral?
No, does a car give a fuck when you turn the key? Does the oven give a fuck when you put food in it to cook? Does the faucet give a fuck when you turn it to let the water flow?
How I respond doesn’t matter to how the universe responds.
Yeah, I was kind of mulling over this thread last night and this post solidifies a few questions I had…
So we’ve got 7 billion people in this world, all attracting various things with their attitudes and thinking; positive, negative, whatever. I personally think it’s hard to deny that people’s fates are interlinked; that one person can have a direct impact on another’s fate through direct action (if I decide to hit you over the head with a baseball bat and put you in the hospital with a skull fracture, I’ve affected your fate, for an extreme example); can one person’s “attractions” have an effect on another’s in the same way?
Say you’ve got a woman driving a car who’s thinking and emotions should have her attracting nothing but positive things. No “blame” or “fault” possible by whatever correct or misguided standards might apply. But she’s got 3 totally negative teenagers in the backseat, all of whom have been bored to death lately and are secretly wishing for some DRAMA in their boring lives. Meanwhile you’ve got a suicidal drunk driver coming the other way (completely attracting all sorts of negative things from the universe) who is about to veer into her lane and hit her car head on, leaving her a quadriplegic for life. So, you’ve got 4 people attracting negativity and 1 who is not; does the universe give the woman the car accident, even though she’s not technically attracting it herself? Is she somehow attracting misfortune simply by being surrounded by negative people and their message comes through the strongest? Can one person’s emotions and attractiveness simply be outweighed by sheer numbers of people who are attracting something else around her?
Which brings me to another question; if it doesn’t work that way and the universe spares her (because she hasn’t attracted that fate) and gives the other four their just desserts later when she’s not an innocent bystander, could a negatively attractive person “game the system” by hiding amongst positive people their whole lives? Say Negative Daughter in the back seat there has incredibly Positive Mom, and for shits and giggles we’ll throw in incredibly Positive Dad and incredibly supportive family and friends. She’s surrounded by attractive people attracting good things. But ND is a negative person and engages in risky behaviors and flirts with attracting some really bad consequences to herself. Losing their only daughter would be a terribly negative thing for PM and PD that their intense emotions and visualizations shouldn’t be attracting. Could their attractions outweigh their daughter’s attractions? If so, what does it matter what any one person makes an attempt to change their thinking to attract, if the people around them can have just as much an effect on their fate by sheer force of numbers?
And by that, I mean in a way where you could for example determine that the reason for the daughter’s fate was the laws of attraction, versus a more mundane, concrete explanation like the parents’ love and support? I’m just saying that if you can’t distinguish a system of laws so subtle and complex that they look like random chance, from actual random chance, then perhaps, y’know, Occam’s Razor applies.
My guess? It’s because people want to take credit for the good that happens in their life while pretending the bad isn’t their fault or problem at all, regardless of how much personal control one has over any individual situation.
People who like The Secret aren’t full-faith adherents to its philosophy and stick to it good or bad; they rely on it for good and discard it when it doesn’t suit them. Like most humans do with most philosophies, really.
If your explaining is so poor that not a single person outside of yourself is getting your point, that is an error on the part of the communicator, not the listener. I know I’m not the first to suggest this to you, but perhaps you need to do a little self reflection about your communication style and why it is consistently unsuccessful for you. Or just think of yourself being an awesome communicator. . . then it’ll happen. It worked for Oprah.
If any of those were responding to emotions, like you said the universe does, then you might have a point. A car doesn’t give a fuck when you turn the key, but if you just got in your car and thought really positive thoughts until it turned on, then yeah, I’d say it was giving a fuck.