A couple of years ago I was working on taking my then 11 year old daughter out of school for a 10 day trip to the Caribbean. I discussed it with the school, and did a pile of paperwork to justify my wish. After review, I did more paperwork. In the end, my daughter’s mother vetoed the idea, but it amazed me how difficult it was to get the school district’s OK.
Interestingly, the school is in a rural western Pennsylvania area, and the first day of deer season (along with the remainder of the season) is automatic time off for the majority of students.
Personally, I own a handgun. If an intruder entered my home I would have no problem emptying the gun along with my two speed loaders. However, I could never kill the wildlife that I feed and enjoy watching year round. That said, venison is yummy.
I can see the intrinsic value of not panicking around firearms, and of course I agree on minimizing suffering. But I’m still not real sold on “not running away” as a principle that needs teaching.
As America becomes more urban, more and more Americans have forgotten what country people do. That is understandable.
Hunting is not a political statement for most people. It is a recreation, a tradition and unique pleasure and responsibility. Hunters are those who are stewards of the land, who understand and love it.
OK, I can understand how urban people have lost sight of that. It is natural I suppose. I take exception to the idea expressed here that people who do different things than we do are somehow wrong.
People in different parts of the world do different things, and for different reasons. We need to understand that, the other choice is (obvious) misunderstanding.
Yeah, the kid was using a .243 according to the article, I’ve personally seen black bears charge after a grazing hit by a .30-06 or .308, so the risk was there if she hadn’t been as good a shot as she was.
Man, now I want to renew my hunting license and get some venison. Mmm, venison.
On the age argument, I think the fact that she passed the firearms tests speaks volumes–usually, they’re fair but comprehensive (at least in PA), and earning one’s license is not a simple rubber-stamp activity. As for over-enthused parent, I think personally that she wouldn’t have been able or willing to take a second aimed shot if she wasn’t at least partly self-motivated, just based on my experience with older reluctant hunters (up here, mostly it’s guys trying to take their wives/girlfriends hunting when they ENJOY a few days mostly home alone while macho man is in the woods drinking beer and playing poker with his buddies.)
I was born and raised in the country, in England. Like many posters in this thread, I have no problem with killing animals for many reasons (food, pest control, population control, and more). But “for fun” is not one of those reasons.
As someone living in a foreign country, I am very aware that we should not condemn things just because they are different from what we are used to. Often, they are just different - not better or worse. That does not mean that we should always accept differences as being inconsequential. For example, I do not regard female circumcision as morally acceptable just because it is a tradition in some countries.
Take slavery as an example. No, I am not in any way trying to say that recreational hunting is morally comparable to slavery. But 200 years ago, slavery was accepted as normal and without moral issue by many people in the US. Most Europeans thought differently. In that example, the US people changed over time to have the same moral views as other developed nations.
In the case of recreational hunting, the US is again different from my home country of the UK. Probably because of the US’s more recent history of pioneering and living off the land, hunting is a more ingrained activity than in the UK. It passes down through families as a perfectly natural thing to do. I am very familiar with this - my wife is American and from a family who have hunted since childhood. Until learning my views, they had never even considered that there might be people with moral issues about recreational hunting. It can be quite tough to learn that an activity that you think normal and enjoy is regarded as immoral by some other people. The natural reaction is to dismiss them, but there have been many examples in history where the general view of what is and is not moral has changed. I expect recreational hunting to be one of those areas. It is an activity already in decline (based on numbers of licenses issued). The general trend in developed countries has been to pay more and more attention to animal welfare. The US sometimes lags (cockfighting is still legal in two states; bowhunting is legal), but generally follows the same trend.
So in discussing my views in posts like this, I am not criticizing or castigating recreational hunters. They generally have different backgrounds and think in different ways from me, as influenced by our different upbringings.
But no way would I want government to legislate against recreational hunting. I do not want government imposing its view of morality on everyone. Actually, I would like bowhunting banned - it is OK to legislate against cruelty, but not to impose morals.
She shot at a bear with a single-shot rifle? Holy crap. I mean, hitting a bear-shaped object at 50 meters ain’t bad, but I wouldn’t have pressed my luck like that. Assuming I wasn’t allowed to use grenades or a shoulder-mounted rocket, I would at least want something with a lot of bullets already loaded.
We obviously have not met the same hunters.
That said, as long as they eat the bear after, I think there’s nothing wrong with hunting them. As for 8 year olds hunting…as long as all of the safety precautions were met, I don’t see a problem.
I have no problem with hunting for food, so long as the prey is eaten afterwards.
I have no problem with killing an animal to stave of an imminent threat to a person’s life.
I have qualms about killing an animal just for its pelt, but so long as you do it relatively without cruelty, I’ll let it pass, so long as you do wear it afterwards or live inside it.
I have no problem with hunting for “sport,” so long as the bear has a more-or-less even chance of killing the 8-year-old girl. Otherwise, it’s not sport; it’s just killing.
But, I’ll think you a putz for hiding behind a tree at a distance and using a technology that prevents the animal from taking evasive action against you except for running away and calling it “sport.” Doubly, if you’re not getting the benefit of nourishment, safety, or clothing/shelter and just a trophy rack or skin.
And I’ll think you a putz for teaching your 8-year-old daughter that this is an honourable thing to do and taking her out of school to do it, no matter whatever else she might learn from the experience.
I think it can be taught all right. I’m just not sure it’s a core value in hunting the way it is in, say, combat.
You see, I’m suspicious that people confuse the hunterly and soldierly virtues. When you teach activities involving guns, you have to be clear on what you’re teaching — especially if you teach kids this young (which I’m not in favor of in the first place).
Are you that poor a shot, or just overly sadistic? I’m suire you’re just hyperbolizing, but shooting people - or anything for any reason - really isn’t a topic for levity. All you’re doing is tossing fuel on the gun-owner-as-blood-thirsty-avenger stereotype fire. Totally counterproductive. Please, when you make statements about gun use, take a more reasoned approach.
I think it’s kind of sad that most people do not have wilderness survival skills. I think they are important. I think that people would be a lot more calm and confident if they knew that they’d survive the collapse of society. We wouldn’t be trying to navigate people’s terror of everyday life on the daily.
