Well, I have been there to an extent (fishing, until I thought about what I was doing and gave it up), so I guess I am allowed to continue.
I don’t. I’m just not complicit in getting enjoyment out of the killing part.
Yep - that’s one of the valid reasons for killing, as I’ve said several times.
As I’ve already said, I’ve been very involved. I’ve worked on livestock farms and a butchers shop. I am not trying to avoid the fact that I am involved in the killing of animals. I just don’t do it for the enjoyment.
So, uh, it’s OK for someone to hunt as long as they don’t enjoy it? Do they have to physically castigate themselves, or will vague feelings of self-loathing do just as well?
I’ve found myself thinking of a cartoon which ran as follows:
Hunter conceals himself behind tree
Bear comes down to drink from pond
Hunter drills single shot accurately through heart of bear, its eyes turn to X’s mid-drink
…Hunter has carcass stuffed and mounted, rearing on hind paws, forepaws spread, teeth bared in savage bestial snarl
We have some sport shooting over here. Mostly it’s pheasants, which aren’t native to the country and have to be bred. Often they’re reared within sound of gunshot. Shooting mostly consists of driving them from cover towards stands where shooters wait at the ready. I like the taste of pheasant and have occasionally been given a brace (I’ve both euthanised an injured pheasant and dressed several for the table, although not the same pheasant as it happens, so we can take it I’m not too squeamish to eat meat and anyone who wants to argue the point with me can help themselves to a giant steaming cup), but so far as sport goes, I was always taught to pick on something my own size.
I like the description in The Sword in the Stone (the book, not the silly Disney cartoon) of a Boxing Day boar-hunt. I think going out on foot with a spear to hunt a boar two or three times your weight and with effective natural weapons would be excitement enough for one year.
Sadly, I’ve learned to take people deadly serious when they come up with half-cocked schemes that affect my rights to hunt. It never ceases to amaze me the stupid shit that non-hunters can think is a good idea.
:shrug:
Hopefully he was only kidding, but I don’t see any evidence of that.
Chalk me up as another person who just doesn’t get you, amarone. If people don’t get enjoyment from the hunt, then they wouldn’t hunt.
I can end the mystery for you right now: 99.9% of all hunters do enjoy hunting, so by your definition they are what you are objecting to.
Ogre nailed it with this: Do they have to physically castigate themselves, or will vague feelings of self-loathing do just as well?
Seriously, I was thinking the same thing. When I go out bowhunting tomorrow, as I do every weekend in October, do I have to feel guilty about it in order to be moral?
Is there actually any stalking or is it just sitting in a blind and waiting for something to wander by and plinking it? The former is pretty cool, the latter…not so much.
Note, I don’t care about people hunting. Although, I do find bear hunting for some reason to be distasteful (although, oddly, not many other game animals) - mostly for the reason in Malacandra’s post about the cartoon, which I also recall.
You do realize that this questions is as insulting as it is baited, right?
I could list out all the aspects of hunting that I get enjoyment from. It would be a long list. But, I honestly don’t even see any reason to bother responding to you.
So, hunting by “stalking” is cool, but hunting from a “blind” is not? Why?
How about a treestand? Is that OK? How about wearing camo and still hunting? I’m just about as invisible when still hunting with my camo on as a blind is.
Do you think that hunting from a blind doesn’t require skill? That you don’t have to spend time scouting and finding a trail to set up on? That you don’t have to get in and out of the blind without spooking game? That you don’t have to have scent control? That it doesn’t suck sitting still without moving in wind, snow and rain and all kinds of hot and cold weather? That you still have to do a hundred things right to even see a deer much less successfully shoot one?
I can walk into the woods with the ability to still hunt, build a blind, or climb into a tree. I can do this all with the items I’m carrying on me. I have a harness that allows me to climb up into a tree like a utility worker. I can swing around to almost 360 degrees and shoot down at game. I can carry fabric and rope that I use to string up a blind to sit behind. While carrying all this, I’m mobile enough to still hunt quietly through the woods scouting for deer sign.
All of this requires skill. All of it is a matter of choosing the best tools for the situation. It’s all a part of what a good hunter knows how to do, just like the hundreds of hours spent mastering accuracy with my bow.
People that talk about “stalking” and “waiting for something to wander by” make it clear that they don’t know the first thing about what they are talking about. Does’t it give you pause to think you know what’s best when you can’t even discuss the subject without betraying your own ignorance? How can you be some final moral authority of which kind of hunting is acceptable when you don’t even know what you’re talking about?
Just doesn’t sound like much fun, that’s all. At least with the stalking you’re doing something and not just sitting around. Didn’t mean “not cool” as in “not skilled” or “immoral” - meant it as in “doesn’t sound like I would enjoy it much.”
It seems we are probably in agreement then. Primary motivation might show a set of skewed priorities, I’ll grant that. However, what I see as unecessary is shooting squirrels with a .22, shooting animals so you can hang their head on your wall (though hanging the head of an animal that’s feeding you is fine), but to me it goes under a general respect for the world around one more than anything. I don’t like waste of any kind. I don’t like to see people taking plastic grocery bags when it’s unecessary, because their production kills creatures as well. I think there are a lot of behaviors that are gluttonous that I think are connected to this sort of behavior that the average person engages in that kill living creatures that people are disconnected from. This is why I think that no matter what one’s income level, that killing their own meat is a level of responsibility for one’s sustenance than we get on average, so I think it’s probably better, even if they are rich and can get steak at the restaurant any time they want.
I mistakenly put your “not cool” comment into the anti-hunter filter, instead of the much more common “curious about hunters” questions that I often get.
I didn’t mean to bite your head off too badly with my response. I just tend to get testy when our sport is threatened by people like some posters in this thread seem to.
