How does this make it better for the average working person?
well…Its just that the modern union worker needs to get out there and turn over some cars and firebomb some scabs…or something. Like in the old days. it helps them…well…because its areobic exercise…They need to get off their lazy ass and do some real violence for a change.
Exactly. People are gonna stand up for themselves. Either they’ll have legal peaceful ways to do it or they won’t.
Unions are just another business, and they’re out to make money for themselves, same as all other businesses. It’s just that their product and market are a bit focussed.
Personally, I’m a lot more approving of collective bargaining as a whole than unionization. The union WILL screw you over just as much, if not more, than the company, though at least you’ll be comfortable on the way down.
How does what make it better? I don’t understand your question. Unions, used properly, make it better for the average working person because they can bargain collectively rather than individually, giving them more power. Equalizing the power between employer and employee is a good thing. Putting MORE power in the hands of the union than in the hands of business imbalances that power again, which is not a good thing, for either the employees or the employers.
In my experience non union work is demonstrably more dangerous in my feild. In non union situations there is no minimum time off between shifts, and in one site I worked on the turnaround between 16 hour shifts was 6 hours. This was not just once or twice, but every single day. My union would never allow that. That type of expectation places everyone working there in real danger of crashing their car while sleep deprived on their way to or from work. I quit that job, and have not taken a non union job since. This is not to say that all non union work is exploitive or dangerous, just to point out that your experience of the union vs. non union world might just be a little “borderline retarded” itself.
Not having legal protection makes the union completely powerless and irrelevant. Haveing some legal protection does not make them more powerful than the business, it doesnt even make it equa to the business…just closer to it.
Before unions were given protection legally the only way they got things done was by illegal activity…violence and intimidation to convince people not to take those jobs. We dont want to return to that.
I’m of a more moderate mindset about unions. I believe in some cases they are useful and even needed, like here in CA the nurses union helped bring about some much needed changes for them.
In other (I’d go as far as to say most) cases, unions are not needed. I have never worked a job that I feel would have been enhanced by the presence of a union. The healthcare workers union is trying to get my office to join, with our dues being 2% of our salary, but so far it hasn’t happened. Here’s hoping it doesn’t.
I still don’t have my cite - I haven’t been to my parents house yet - but I’m gonna jump on board and say that originally unions were formed as a way to strengthen the power of the uneducated masses. If you spent twenty years learning a trade, you pretty much know it (not always, but usually). Just because you don’t have a college degree doesn’t mean you don’t know your job, and just because you didn’t go to college doesn’t mean you’re stupid. The problem is that the uneducated are the ones that get screwed the most, because they’re so involved with surviving that they don’t have the time or the resources to research whether they’re getting fucked or not. Unions are there to help them with that - ask any union member about facets of labor laws and they can probably recite them perfectly. In my union to become a full member from a registrant you have to take a class about Nevada and Federal labor law. Many unions have the same rules and regs.
Anything that involves educating the masses is fine by me, personally. But as someone above stated, there needs to be a balance of power - when you give either side, the employer or the union, all of the power, you have an issue at hand.
~Tasha
Jesus JC, you should know better than that. You actually believe that absent unions government is going to shrink itself? Yea, Unions had their time and place. They were desperately needed back in the day. That day is past and unions are an anachronism that costs workers money and jobs (take basic economics if you don’t believe me). You just started your own business venture. You running a union shop? I don’t expect partisan mouthbreathers like 'luci to exhibit any independent thought, but you should know better than that. Shame on you.
It depends on what you mean by “legal protection.” I believe that workers have the right to unionize, but I also believe that companies have the right to not hire union workers. A union has to make ITSELF relevant by giving businesses a reason to believe that hiring union workers is in their best business interest.
All of the worker improvements that we enjoy were hard won by unions. Vacations, health care, safety , pensions. These will dissappear. If you believe corpoprations will generously retain them your nuts. Pensions and health care are already under attack.
I have been involved in design and building of machinery for many years. When we shipped equipment abroad the safety guards, beams etc were removed. This is who we compete against. Qwe are in a race to the bottom.
Organizers gave their lives fighting corporations. You will get screwed if you cant learn from history.
I’m thinking of two friends, both paralegals, who often wind up working until 10pm, 11pm or midnight, completely exhausted and stressed out from doing it frequently. One works for Disney and the other for a law firm. These places are piling more work on them but not hiring anyone to help them out. Longer work hours? Oh, you bet. But no more money, no raise, and no assistance. I’m sure there are many more people in the same unfortunate position.
What, if any, rights or legal protections are in place for such folks?
It isnt in their best business interest and never will be. Keeping your workers poor and powerless in your businesses best intererst to most corporations. It doesnt matter what services the union provieds, the company will always go for people who will work cheaper and are desperate. It is however in society as a wholes best interest that workers are paid well and treated well
If they have good reason to believe they are being treated illegally, they could contact the department of labor wage and hour division, http://www.dol.gov/esa/contacts/whd/america2.htm#California There is a listing of the district offices there.
You mean the way non-union employees have no vacations, health care, or pensions?
As Antinor01 mentions, they can check to see if they have been treated illegally. If not, they can always start looking for another job.
Regards,
Shodan
I don’t think that’s exactly true. Businesses want their workers content, and ignorance helps keep them more content in some situations. You don’t want miserable employees if you can help it.
I dont care who you are but if you die today the company will continue without you, They do not need you. They do need all of you. Collective power .
Do not believe in magnanimous corporations. You will pay in the future. You are a cog. When accounting says you are not needed you are gone.When they say someone in India will do it cheaper it will happen.The American worker is on a huge slide. It is just beginning. NAFTA was supposed to include a raise of wages ,benefits and environmental protections. When the business men in chargwe of finalizing the argeements sat down,they sold us out. They gutted all that and opened the markets to cheaper labor.
I don’t want miserable employees…But I’m not most buisiness owners. I’ve worked lots of places that traded fear and desperation for loyalty and hapiness and they liked it that way. I disagree with that business model, but I don’t trust other business folk to do the same. Unions are there for those businesses that want to work that way.
Yes. The friends I mentioned in an earlier post cannot unionize, as they work, respectively, for a corporation and a private law firm. So they’re pretty much stuck if they choose to stay where they are. I don’t believe their employers give a crap if their employees are miserable and exhausted as long as they can save some money by not hiring any assitants. Sure, the employees could leave, but the situation shouldn’t exist in the first place.
My situation is different. I am at a college with a large, active collective bargaining unit ; and it seems to work and negotiate quite congenially with the administration these days. My former campus was not at all like this; there was nothing but bad blood and poor morale. That’s why I don’t work there anymore.