I shot a couple of suppressed firearms yesterday...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

…And I liked them (the supressors, that is)

SIG arms has their portable shooting trailer, an 18 wheeler trailer heavily reinforced and ventilated, at Kittery Trading Post this weekend, with a small selection of handguns and rifles to try out, all the handguns are 9mm semis, two rifles are 9mm carbines, and an AR platform in .300 Blackout

One of the handguns is suppressed, as is the AR, so I tried both, I had never shot a suppressed firearm before…

I already knew supressors just reduce/suppress the muzzle report by around 30-35 dB, and don’t make that Hollywood “thwip” noise, so the firearm will still sound like a firearm, just a tad quieter, still, I wanted to experience suppressed firearms

Obviously the biggest reduction was on the 9mm handgun, it took it from around 160dB (rather painful) to probably around 140-ish, perhaps less, about the sound level of .22LR out of a rifle, if you had a large enough back yard, and .22 doesn’t bug the neighbors, you could probably plink with your 9mm without disturbing your neighbors

On the down side, the supressor really throws off the balance of the handgun, makes it very muzzle heavy and much longer, it’d have to be open carried in an open bottom holster, a suppressed semiauto would be very difficult to try to conceal carry, supressors are for home defense handguns and range toys, primarily

The AR was amazingly quiet, almost down there with the handgun, that’s due to .300BKT being a subsonic cartridge in the first place, it’s naturally quieter than the 5.56 it shares a casing with (it’s basically a 5.56 case necked up to hold a .30 caliber bullet)

Supressors are not just fun, they’re safety equipment, basically a muffler for a gun, heck, even in England, that hotbed of draconian anti-gun laws, you can buys supressor off the shelf, with no background check, no tax stamp, no restrictions beyond the already ornerous ones in place restricting firearm ownership in the first place.

2

Yes, they are absolutely for safety and not bothering the neighbors. It’s really a shame that Hollywood’s portrayal of them has led most to believe they’re only a tool for assassins and other bad guys. Like you, I don’t find them practical for most handgun use, but for certain rifles/cartridge combinations, they’re great for target shooting.

3

:confused::confused::confused:

Given what you’ve said about suppressors, i simply don’t grasp the argument you’re making about “safety” and “home defense.”

You’ve told us that suppressors don’t really reduce the noise very much, and you’ve also told us that they throw off the balance of the gun. In what possible way do these characteristics improve safety or make a gun better for home defense?

I’m not a gun owner, and i have no reason to own a gun for home defense. But if i did have such a weapon, it seems to me that it would be most useful if it were NOT thrown out of balance by a large tube stuck on the front. And it also seems to me that, if i were in a situation where i needed to use a handgun for home defense, the last thing i’d be worried about is whether it produced a 160 or a 140dB noise.

Is there some connection i’m missing here, or some piece of information that you’ve failed to provide, which would explain why a suppressor makes for greater safety and better home defense?

4

Shooting inside confined spaces makes the noise a bigger problem. The walls reflect a lot of the sound energy, that would disperse outside, right back at you. That increases the risk of permanent hearing damage. It’s not be a big issue compared to the “am I going to live factor” if that was the only perceived safety benefit.

Really loud noises and bright flashes can also affect your ability to accurately engage after the first round. The sound suppressor helps with both. If you are afraid of it (and there’s no real way to train for exactly how loud and bright it is in a dark hallway without risking hearing damage) it can affect first round accuracy. The unsuppressed self defense pistol fired inside during limited visibility is a bit like a small flash bang held at arms length in front of the shooters face.

5

I’ve got no dog in this fight, so I’ll jump in. (That’s the doper creed, right?)

“Safety” here is really in the context of safe enjoyment of a hobby. If you think of shooting guns like any other recreational activity, there are things you can do to be more safe or less safe from the associated dangers of that particular sport.

Do you shoot hoops in your driveway? Wear knee and elbow guards and good athletic shoes and you’ll be ‘safer’ than if you just run out barefoot in your t-shirt and shorts.

Are you a whittler? Or work with sharp tools in your garage? Have styptics and compression bandages on hand for stopping bleeding if an accident happens and suddenly you’re more safe!

Like yard work? Gardening? Do you do that with your bare hands, or in gardening gloves for protection?

Shooting is similar. Despite awful news headlines and stupid people being lax with their safety and control of the guns themselves, the most common injuries from shooting as a range sport or hobby is eye damage from the casings being released, and HEARING LOSS because of the noise levels involved.

So if you want to plink or range shoot regularly, but want to be conscious of your health and safety while doing it, suppressors are an option for doing that.

For the home defense side of things, I am not a home defense gun advocate, but I will say that if a gun goes off in your home, there may be people besides yourself who have ears you want to protect as much as possible. I certainly wouldn’t want to deafen my husband in an emergency situation, and regardless of the situation, if I had kids I would very much want to keep their hearing protected to the extent I could do so. Once again, supressors are a tool that supports that goal.

They also support the goal of individual urban snipers shooting someone and having their location somewhat better disguised or masked, but there really aren’t that many snipers out there.

6

How are they attached? Does the barrel of the gun need to be altered (threaded?)?

7

So you don’t disturb the neighbors with a 2 a.m. invasion firefight?

8

Yes, suppressors need a threaded muzzle**, they screw on to the muzzle, you also need to use subsonic ammo for maximum sound reduction, as supressors will not affect the sonic boom caused by bullets breaking the sound barrier
**unless you happen to have a Ruger 10/22, there are companies that make integrally suppressed barrels for the 10/22, no screw on can required

Here’s the procedure to buy a supressor in Maine currently…

Go to gun shop, fill out class 3 paperwork, get fingerprinted and background checked at the police station, then wait 6 months+ for approval, if approved, go to gun shop, fill out Federal Form 4473, like you would when buying a gun, pay for the supressor, AND an additional $200 fee for a “tax stamp”, then take your new, expensive gun muffler home

Repeat process for every additional supressor you want to buy…

9

So you don’t deafen yourself because you didn’t have time to put in earplugs.

10

Or you don’t want to be “pre-deafened” if you have to go(retrieve child in another room) and confront a possible invader.

11

This is an actual issue… and not just for you but for every other person in the house with you (spouse, kids, etc). Those nice sealed windows that keep heat in keep sound and air pressure in too.
Yes, you may live through it, but you and your household will lose a (possibly large) % of your hearing after any indoor gunfight.

12

And at least that’s being consistent: being more restrictive of the thing with which you may actually inflict the greater harm, rather than of a safety accessory.

13

Please note that decibels are logarithmic, so a change or 20 or 30 is not some tiny amount.

There is no real good reason not to have them, though I don’t really buy the argument that hunters will all use them. The added weight and unwieldiness can be a significant handicap.

14

I’ve fired Ruger .22 suppressed handguns in New Zealand and they did make that Hollwood “Thoonk” noise. They were really, really quiet.

A lot of the noise from a firearm report is the supersonic projectile leaving the barrel - using subsonic ammo will make things noticeably quieter too.

15

On the dB scale, 103dB is twice as loud ad 100dB, so a 20 to 30dB reduction is significant, and hearing damage starts at 85dB.

supressed 9mm
supressed .300 blackout

16

I’ve used suppressed .22’s for shooting rabbits on occasion. Switching from normal high-velocity (in this case PMC Zapper) ammo to subsonics changed the zero enough to be noticeable at 50 metres. From memory, out of my Brno/CZ Model 5 there was about 1.5 - 2 cm drop in impact point at that range (a bit less from my fathers longer barrelled Model 2). At longer ranges the difference in trajectory opened up more.

Switching between them was a PITA most of the time unless you were going to be using sub’s enough to warrant re-sighting the rifle for them. Otherwise you had to estimate the drop and compensate accordingly.

17

I guess I can’t argue the logic, but it seems a lot like being sure to have gum-rubber shoes on when you jump off a cliff.

Not to derail the thread in any way, but are there reliable statistics of how many residential occupant weapon firings there are, presumably in defense of the home?

A more salient question, really: WHY are suppressors so highly regulated? I could see large “silencers” being a threat to LE and public safety, maybe, but “mufflers” that knock down the noise peaks are not going to hide the presence or location of a shooter.

18

Suppressors are highly related for two main reasons.

1: They are commonly referred to as silencers. This makes people think that they completely eliminate the gun’s report allowing criminals to shoot people undetected.

2: This is directly related to number 1. Hollywood. Hollywood’s has convinced people that silencers make a gunshot go “pffft”. It just isn’t so. A silenced firearm sounds like a firearm, just not so loud.

2

19

Mostly Hollywood. Wohn Jick and his opponent strolling through a subway station taking potshots at each other with suppressed 45cal pistols and no one noticing is only going to happen in Hollywood.

ETA: The suppressor to make any 45 go pfft would almost have to be as big as a car muffler. Not exactly concealable.

20

Just a note:

Don’t take the relative loudness of the suppressors in Hickock45’s video as indicative of the actual loudness of a suppressed firearm. I’ve watched his videos before and the sound of unsurpressed firearms in them aren’t as loud as real life either.