I don’t understand why when a defensemen fires the puck across the ice, if the goalie doesn’t signal the official and touches the puck before it hits the wall…why isn’t that icing? Isn’t the goalie a defenseman and therefore…libel or whatever?
And why wouldn’t you, as a goaltender, raise your hand and call for icing every time, and not wait for the offense to rush down and try to get it?
and while we’re at it…let’s make this the great hockey tutoring thread and find out how to figure out the plus/minus and what exactly it means.
Icing is a little penalty/punishment for the team that cleared the puck from their defensive end to the other teams end, past the far goal line. WITH THAT in mind, if the goalie elects to play the puck, the officials should not
kill the play. The goalie can decide between icing and making a play, and he elects to make a play…now read on…
:)The explanation:
:)NOW KEEP THIS IN MIND: “Icing” calls are to prevent the game from breaking down into useless clearings that kill the play. If the goalie PLAYS it, the it didn’t kill play. Also, if the team that iced the puck is the first ones there, that obviously was a great play, one heckuva long pass and not a play killer.
But, as a deterent, icing calls are good, but some long plays that look like icing, and taste like icing, aren’t really icing: When a play is made by the clearing team (by being there first - “hey, I got here first, so obviously it was a great pass, not icing” - can’t argue with that…OR “hey, I’m the goalie, I can see that it’s in my teams best interest to play this puck, don’t stop play and penalize me for THIER clearing of the puck!!!”
Now do you get it?
The goalie raising his hand doesn’t make the official call icing. The goalie raises his hand to indicate to his skaters that icing will be called if one of his guys gets to the puck. The reason the goalie touching the puck negates icing involves the very reason for the icing rule.
Icing was introduced to keep teams from constantly firing the puck down the ice with no intention of starting an offensive rush. But, if the goalie touches the puck, it most likely means there was a shot on goal (albeit probably a pretty slow shot) that the goalie has to save. The shot is offensive in nature, so you don’t want to penalize the shooting team. That’s also why icing is called off if a skater from the potentially icing team catches up to the puck and touches it first – it becomes an offensive play.
The plus/minus rating is determined by determining how many goals for and against were scored while a certain player is on the ice. For instance, if a player is on the ice when his team scores once, and the other team scores once, he has a +1 rating. It’s a way to tell (roughly) whether a player is pulling his weight.
Dear God. I rarely post and now in the past two days, I’ve posted what looks like a repeat of the post above. I swear I was working on this before Philster posted.
Nice explanations both of you (Philster and Zoff). This is probably the 20th time I’ve had icing explained to me but I always manage to forget the explanation promptly after being told. However, these explanations are more coherent than the ones I usually get (beer is often involved…lots of beer) so perhaps I’ll remember it all this time.
When I play NHL 99 on my computer I always turn off icing since it does nothing but annoy the crap out of me and slows the game way down. In this case I’ll take playability over reality anyday (although I see how it makes sense in the real life version).
If this is “the great hockey tutoring thread”, the rule I don’t get is the two line pass. It seems straight forward enough, passed across two lines before another of your players touch the puck. However, icing is negated by a member of the potentally icing team’s player getting to the puck first. That sounds like a three line pass. So, does that mean, passing across three lines is OK, but across two isn’t?
Jeepers, did I ever open the wrong thread. I was already to tell you about how it’s a holdover from Victorian cake preservation methods. I don’t get it either. Vile stuff.
A two-line pass is actually an offside pass. It is only called when the player precedes the puck. For instance, if Player A passes the puck from behind his own blue line to beyond the red line it is only an illegal pass if Player B was beyond the red line before the puck passes the red line. If, however, Player B catches up to the puck after the puck crosses the red line, it is not a two-line pass.
For a 2 line pass the lines in question are the blueline and the redline. The goal line doesn’t figure in the 2 line pass infraction in any way, and the other blueline.
To illustrate a 2 line pass: A defenceman has control of the puck in his own end (inside his teams defensive zone) and passes to a forward on the other side of the redline. The puck crosses the blueline(1) and the redline(2). Therefore a 2 line pass. This rule is to prevent cherry-picking.
Icing is not nessecarily a 2 line (or 3 line) pass.
Examples:
1)A defenceman for “team A” has control of the puck in his end and shoots is the length of the ice. If a player from “team B” is unable to make a play before the puck crosses the “team B” goal line, icing is called.
2)A defenceman for “team A” has control of the puck in the neutral zone (The area between the 2 bluelines), but on his side of the redline, and shoots the puck the length of the ice the scenario plays out like example one.
Of course icing can get waved off if a player from “team A” touches the puck before a player from “team B” does, in some cases.
In example 1, if a player from “team A” is on the far side of the red line and he gets to the puck first, there is no icing, but it is a 2 line pass. The resulting faceoff is from where the pass originated, unlike icing where the face is taken to the faceoff circle in “team A’s” end.
In example 2, the second player from “team A” can touch the puck and have icing waved off and have play continue in the offensive zone.
I hope this helps and doesn’t confuse the issue even more for you.
For a 2 line pass the lines in question are the blueline and the redline. The goal line doesn’t figure in the 2 line pass infraction in any way, and the other blueline.
To illustrate a 2 line pass: A defenceman has control of the puck in his own end (inside his teams defensive zone) and passes to a forward on the other side of the redline. The puck crosses the blueline(1) and the redline(2). Therefore a 2 line pass. This rule is to prevent cherry-picking.
Icing is not nessecarily a 2 line (or 3 line) pass.
Examples:
1)A defenceman for “team A” has control of the puck in his end and shoots is the length of the ice. If a player from “team B” is unable to make a play before the puck crosses the “team B” goal line, icing is called.
2)A defenceman for “team A” has control of the puck in the neutral zone (The area between the 2 bluelines), but on his side of the redline, and shoots the puck the length of the ice the scenario plays out like example one.
Of course icing can get waved off if a player from “team A” touches the puck before a player from “team B” does, in some cases.
In example 1, if a player from “team A” is on the far side of the red line and he gets to the puck first, there is no icing, but it is a 2 line pass. The resulting faceoff is from where the pass originated, unlike icing where the face is taken to the faceoff circle in “team A’s” end.
In example 2, the second player from “team A” can touch the puck and have icing waved off and have play continue in the offensive zone.
I hope this helps and doesn’t confuse the issue even more for you.
In your example the player has a 0 +/- rating. He’s on the ice when his team scores (+1), and on when the other team scores (-1). Hence, he’s back at 0 where he started.
If it was up to me, the 2 line offside pass would be eliminated to open up the game more.
Sorry, jarbabyj, I thought that they had settled the icing question.
Thanks, Zoff & Adam. I guess what I missed was that there were actually two offsides lines. The offensive blue line that you can’t cross ahead of the puck at all. And the red line that you can’t receive a pass originating in the defensive zone if you cross it ahead of the puck.
Keep in mind that +/- stats are not kept for power play goals. If it were, D-men who logged the most penalty kill time would have worse +/- ratings. Of course, you can affect +/- by getting a shorthanded goal; it’s not goals during a power play that are discounted, it’s power play goals. Also, pulling the goalie does not eliminate +/- statkeeping, even though there’s a 1-skater advantage. I’m not sure about during delayed penalties, but I’d imagine +/- is still recorded then.
On icing calls, no one’s mentioned the relatively new ruling: If the puck could have been touched (by the team whose defensive zone the puck is in) then it’s not icing. So you can’t just lollygag towards a slow-moving puck, waiting for it to cross the goal line so you can get an icing call. You have to make an effort or it’s not icing.
What I’m confused about is off sides vs. delayed off sides vs. intentional off sides.
I assume intentional OS is a judgement call by the ref.
But I’m pretty fuzzy on what makes an OS call delayed. Is it just that a bunch of time passes between the puck coming on OS and an offensive player touching it, and “normal” off sides is caused by it being touched immediately (ie being carried in) ?
I remember and yearn for the days of Sunday hockey on (CBS?) around 1970. Between periods, they would illustrate all of these terms with an animated “Peter Puck” and voilla’ it all started to make sense.
Sounds like hockey on tv could use a refresher course.
ESPN is trying something along these lines. They call it “NHL Rules” (how imaginative).
According to this article (just happened to be the first I found), they’re doing six such games this year.
I haven’t seen any of the broadcasts, but I believe they cover a game with a focus on teaching new fans what the hell is going on. The commentators, graphics and other effects are much more basic than you’d get in a regular broadcast - they repeatedly explain rules, strategies, etc.
The reason they don’t do too many of these seems obvious: the fans who do know the game may eventually be driven mad by repeated explanations of what offsides and icing are.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sengkelat *
**More or less, yes. On the offensive rush, if the puck is brought over and an offensive player is already in the attacking zone, it’s whistled offside, even if it’s not been touched- for instance, if it’s just shot in.
“Delayed” offsides occurs when there has already been play in the offensive zone, the puck is brough out, and then send back in by a defensive player; the offensive players are given a chance to get out of the offensive zone without the play being whistled, so it “delayed” until they either get out of the zone (negating the offisde) or touch the puck (offsides.)
Basically, the rule is: You can’t cherry-pick.
It’s worth noting that the rules wrt offsides, offside passes and icing are not universal to all leagues and haven’t always been the way they are now. Some levels of play have automatic icing, for instance, whereby the puck doesn’t have to be touched - it’s just icing the moment it crosses the goal line. This is safer, as it prevents rushes for the puck and big collisions along the boards.
True. I’ve been focusing more on the NHL. It should be noted, though, that it is a penalty in the NHL to intentionally slam a player into the boards when rushing to touch the puck on a potential icing play.
This is a good place to get a plain English explanation of a lot of the rules.
And I apologize to jarbabyj for causing her head to explode.
