Ah yes “The executions will halt as soon as the leader of the partisans turns themselves in!” argument that worked so well to turn the French against the resistance.
The cease fire deal currently offered does not require that. Hamas has to only release 33 hostages even.
Read the cite on my post 91, and tell me where anything like that was proposed. You can also research the ceasefire agreement yourself. It was called- by neutral outsiders- a generous offer.
This just shows Hamas doesnt want a ceasefire. The protests are no pointless. They are demanding something that Hamas will not accept.
But, couldn’t Israel do a unilateral ceasefire?
Like, if Ukraine unilaterally declared a ceasefire and stood down their army, Russia would invade and conquer the rest of the country. But Hamas isn’t going to invade and conquer any part of Israel. It seems unlikely that, at this point, they could do another October 7th any time soon. So, other than abandoning any surviving hostages, why can’t Israel just pull out of Gaza immediately?
And, I guess, a related question. What happens if Hamas never agrees to a ceasefire? Hamas’ leadership isn’t in Gaza. Hamas as an organization doesn’t care about the suffering of Gazans. What does Israel do if Hamas just never agrees to a ceasefire? Just keep bombing Gaza indefinitely?
Saw this a bit ago, it expresses my feelings exactly.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kZVhghN-aPY
If you want a couple more Oct 7ths, sure. Especially if by “ceasefire” you also mean that Israel should “life the blockade”, so Hamas can freely rearm with aid from Iran.
Why does that seem unlikely?
Soon seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting, there. Sure, it might take longer than a week or two to rearm. But more attacks would certainly be coming. (Not to mention the rocket barrages that haven’t stopped).
Replace Hamas with someone else to administer Gaza. An independent peacekeeping force, the Palestinian Authority, or Israel directly.
Do you still have faith that this IDF, and this Israeli government, can actually accomplish any of these goals? Because I certainly don’t. ISTM that Israel is getting weaker and weaker, and Hamas isn’t. An incompetent government, and an incompetent military, mostly flailing, and accomplishing little beyond death and destruction, ISTM.
Prolly not the bestest idea to point to that particular story to prove that “we deserve this land because we were here 3000 yrs ago”
lest folks learn that the land ancient Israel stands on was very much not empty when God gave that land to the Jews.
That is also true - but we don’t live in the Bronze Age (or early Iron Age), we live now. Last I heard there has been no new Jewish prophet to channel the word of G-d and command massacres and ethnic cleansing.
‘Hold my beer Manischewitz…’ ~ Benji N
Hamas bad! I fully agree.
The point was that punishing the populace for failure of certain individuals to respond to demands of what is seen as an oppressive force, is unlikely to turn the populace against those individuals, but will instead further galvanize them against the oppressors.
The IDF, yeah, absolutely
This government, when it comes to dismantling Hamas control over Gaza, I trust them to let the IDF handle that, yes.
Whether they can take the necessary diplomatic steps to replace Hamas permenantly, that is less certain. I am hopeful that Netanyahu will be replaced first, though.
Interesting; I don’t really see it.
No argument there, though mostly it’s incompetent at things like stopping the ultra religious from robbing the rest of us blind.
Really.
Like I’ve said before - to me, it was always obvious that this is what a direct confrontation with Hamas would look like. Which is why in the past, when they’ve rained down rockets or whatever, I’ve held the opinion that it is best to ignore them as much as possible.
Oct 7 made that untenable, and so direct confrontation with Hamas in Gaza it is. And as predicted, when a terrorist group intertwines itself into the civilian population and infrastructure to the extent that Hamas has, removing them causes a lot of “death and destruction”, as you put it.
Why is that less valid than “we deserve this land because we were here 80 years ago”? How long do you have to be exiled from a land before adverse possession kicks in?
If you define war as “killing people and breaking things” (as a friend of mine did a couple decades ago) the IDF is actually a very competent and capable force. Gaza is in ruins and literally tens of thousands of people are dead.
The rest of your post is arguably true, but not this part. The IDF is very much a competant military. The problem is not their competence but the people giving the orders and what the intent of those order-givers may or may not be.
Looks like it’s 20 years in most US states. That seems reasonable to me.
Is the US a strong ally of any of the countries that Mayer mentioned? If the US was sending Myamar military aid that was being used to brutalize Rahinya, I would be in favor of protesting that too. The point is that Israel is supposed to be better than North Korea or China, and so yes, I hold them to a higher standard.
Its like asking why do I protest police shooting black people when I don’t protest criminals shooting black people.
No doubt. But this much death and destruction, with this little in actual results? ISTM that’s due to incompetence (and worse). And ISTM we should have seen this coming – more than a decade of hard-right rule can leak poison into any institution. No one should have thought the IDF was immune. A competent military wouldn’t have allowed Oct 7th to be nearly as bad as it was, and a competent military would have been able to do more real harm to Hamas with less collateral damage, ISTM.
The Royal Irish Constabulary didn’t have nukes, but I don’t think the otherwise superior force that they could bring to bear ensured the ultimate outcome.
“Police and military will patrol the country roads at least five nights a week. They are not to confine themselves to the main roads but make across the country, lie in ambush, take cover behind fences near roads, and when civilians are seen approaching shout: ‘Hands up!’ Should the order be not obeyed, shoot, and shoot with effect. If the persons approaching carry their hands in their pockets or are in any way suspicious looking, shoot them down. You may make mistakes occasionally and innocent persons may be shot, but that cannot be helped and you are bound to get the right persons sometimes. The more you shoot the better I will like you; and I assure you that no policeman will get into trouble for shooting any man and I will guarantee that your names will not be given at the inquest.”
Suppose there’ll always be Hamas, as there’ll always be an IRA. But there’s now an Irish Republic that works with the UK against terrorism.
The could keep the hostages- some of which are being abused. They can launch rockets, and put bombs in school busses, etc. They can snipe at IDF soldiers. They could sneak in and take more hostages, So yeah, maybe not another Oct 7th but they still could do damage.
I agree that Hamas clearly doesnt care about the Gazans
But what does Israel do- keep killing and searching until they kill the Hamas soldiers (some of which are just boys) and leadership, finding hostages… and oh yes, killing and making life miserable for the Innocent Gazans palestinians.
Sure they can- the issue is- what will be the death toll among innocent Gaza civilians?
Not only Hamas- Netanyahu is a total bastard- who is making things worse. I dont lay all the blame on Hamas.
Yes, a staggering amount, to the point where taking rocket attacks on the chin for years felt like the lesser evil.
Just because Hamas is refusing to surrender doesn’t mean results aren’t being achieved. Many of their most crucial bases of operation have been destroyed, along with tons of their equipment, and many thousands of their operatives have been killed.
Certainly, and there are issues, like the hill youth brigades composed of far right settlers who in the past were denied military service but are now being used in auxiliary roles in the West Bank, which is liable to set off a powder keg. That’s just one example of a bad policy caused by hard right poison, as you put it.
But I don’t see any reason to think that this is what is happening with the invasion in Gaza. Not in the broad strokes, at least - there are certainly details here and there I disagree with, certainly, and some of those definitely have to do with the right. But the overall plan, of a land invasion supported by air, is the only way an invasion of Gaza could be done.
This part, I agree with. Heads will roll for those who were asleep at the wheel.
I don’t think that it’s any more or less valid. My belief is that one can carefully cherry-pick points in history until you find some awful historical injustice to support your particular belief. I have no doubt that every culture, society, nationality, ethnicity is guilty of something.
So I am curious (non-sarcastically and non-snarkily) if your 80 years is alluding to something specific.
At this point we, as a species, should know better.