In this Pit thread, there’s discussion about an encounter between noted photographer Annie Liebowitz and noted monarch Elizabeth II. As reported, Liebowitz was engaged to photograph the queen, and asked her to remove her tiara in a less-than-respectful tone; subsequent evidence in the form of a video clip suggested that any lack of respect was significantly exaggerated, and that the whole event was more non- than issue.
But it gave rise to an interesting discussion, which I thought might benefit from a more formalized and less vitriol-filled environment than the Pit can provide – what kind of personal treatment should be accorded to Her Majesty The Queen?
Side A: She’s just a person, whose only achievement in life was being born into the right family; she hasn’t done anything to deserve any special respect and if I met her I’d treat her just like anyone else.
Side B: She’s Head of the Commonwealth, Supreme Governor of the Church of England, Duke of Normandy, Lord of Mann, and Paramount Chief of Fiji, in addition to being the head of state of the United Kingdom and Great Britain. In addition, she’s a charming and gracious 81-year-old woman. She deserves respect.
I would say that I’m firmly in the “Side B” camp. Putting aside statistical outliers like Papa Doc, Idi Amin, and Josef Stalin, I would say that the default proposition is that a head of state and/or a head of government is entitled to be treated with deferential respect.
I’m gonna add a Side 3: “all due respect”. I’ve no problem with being appropiately respectful with Her Royal Highness, but I’d have a hard time biting my tongue were I ever to meet up with Mr. Bush, even though I agree with the proposition that one should show the President some respect.
On edit: I have to amend that a bit. When Fearless Leader visited tornado-ravaged Greensburg, Kansas last year, he flew into Wichita and choppered on out west. I was in a position to see his fleet of Blackhawks sputter by; while the thought of flipping him off crossed my mind, I didn’t. Guess I can respect the Office even when I don’t respect the Recumbant.
“Side A”. She’s not even my queen.
That’s not to say I’d show her any disrespect - I’d call her “Ma’am”, as I would any woman with whom I am not on a first name basis, and otherwise treat her about the same as I’d treat a state governor, random diplomat, or older woman. Her age and gender deserves a higher degree of politeness than her title.
Hell, I can’t imagine treating a president (even one I admire, if such a creature existed) with “deferential respect”.
IMHO, heads of state should be treated as employees, not as gods.
I’m generally in camp B, at least as far as Queen Elizabeth is concerned. I believe that the way she has comported herself the last 60 years as the Monarch is worthy of the respect I would give anyone who devoted their lives to a duty. On the other hand, someone who did not do so (such as her uncle who abdicated the throne) I would not afford extra respect to because of the accident of his birth.
I would treat the Queen with a higher degree of decorum and reverence (respect isn’t quite the word, I’d respect my grannie, but I don’t call her Your Majesty either) than her age, personal accomplishments or gender alone would suggest.
This is because she’s a symbol of the United Kingdom, and disrespecting her would be a slight against the UK itself as well as against the woman. It’d be like mishandling a Union Jack, or not rising during their national anthem. The people of the UK, in their wisdom, have chosen to make a human being an important symbol of their nation, something that the US and its eight-year max presidents hasn’t really done, and I can respect that.
I’m a B person. She has conducted herself well and has earned our respect. I hate to consider how I’d be if I was raised in a fishbowl to perform a job which I could not retire from. Plus that Parmount Chief of Fiji thing just impresses me.
I’ll take D: I respect her for what I hear of her accomplishments, grace, sense of humor and duty. Not to mention she definitely knows more about mechanics, modern technology and the state of human rights in developing nations than I do.
I don’t respect people because they’re old. I might *dissemble *respect for any world leader with a security detail to avoid getting imprisoned or shot. But from what I’ve heard of her, she’s worthy of real honest respect anyway.
Are you rude to everyone who is not a head of state? I find it’s better to treat everyone as deserving of some respect. “Sir” and “Ma’am” fit most occasions I’ve been in, and can be uttered without any implications pro or con.
What’s likely to happen? Standing in some reception line as she walks down and gives a royal nod as people mumble “Your Majesty” in awe? I’m certainly not saying I’d grab her hand, pat her cheek, and leer “Nice dress, toots”. But I’m also not going down on one knee or acting as if she’s better than anyone else in the line, she’s just famous is all.
I’d treat someone’s grandmother with equal respect.
Perhaps a wise decision, especially if your boss is a Republican. When GWB was visiting Washington State a while back, paralyzing traffic and monopolizing the police force for the purpose of schmoozing with fellow multi-millionaires, a school bus driver flipped-off his motorcade. With Bush was congressman Dave Reichert, (ever dining-out on having been the sheriff who caught the Green River killer), who reported the driver and had her fired.
Of course the answer is A. She’s a human being like everyone else.
That doesn’t mean I’d be rude, or overly familiar, because–get this–I’m not rude or overly familiar to other people. I don’t disrepect random 80 year old women I meet walking down the street, so I surely wouldn’t be disrespectful to an old woman just because some people in some foreign country have decided that she’s some sort of national mascot. Her national mascot status is interesting, but it doesn’t entitle her to any higher respect than any other human being. And it certainly doesn’t entitle me to disrespect her as a human being, either.
So? Joshua A Norton was the Emperor of the United States and the Protector of Mexico. How much respect should he have expected (if he weren’t s’damn amusing)?
No wisdom there: I was on my front porch, and they were about a half mile to the south (unlike the larger flock of helicopters that flew directly over the house the previous afternoon - if that’s what Armageddon is gonna to sound like, I don’t wanna be there.)
I would give to her Majesty all the respect which is due to her many subjects, for whom she is a beloved monarch. I respect her as the avatar of her subjects.
And she saluted our country with our National Anthem at a time when we needed to know who our friends were. God save the Queen!
That’s just idiotic, but I would like to point out that every president pretty much “paralyz(es) traffic and monopoliz(es) the police force for the purpose of schmoozing with fellow multi-millionaires” anywhere they go. Boil Bush in oil (figuratively) for what he’s done if you want, but it’s not quite fair to criticize him for something that’s unavoidable due to the nature of his job.
I would say I am firmly in Side A and Side B in that they are not mutually exclusive.
I think everyone deserves respect and I will give them respect until they have proven by their actions they don’t deserve it. Regardless of that position though I also feel certain offices hold respect, even though you may or may not hold the current occupants of that office in respect.
Menocchio got it in one.
Although I will point out that there is a difference between gestures of respect and gesures of subservience/inferiority. If custom when entering a room containing the Queen was to throw onesself on the floor face down and lie there until acknowledged, I would sure as heck not do that. As a US citizen, and as a human, I am worth every bit as much as anyone else. But that wouldn’t stop me from being polite and respectful. After all, I’m worth much MORE than any single US flag (it’s just cloth after all), and I treat them with respect.
I’d treat her with basic courtesy, but not with any deference. Basically, I’d treat her like I was meeting a friend’s mom. I’d be nice and I’d be polite, but I wouldn’t bow and scrape. I would not recognize her as anything more than a peer.
I’d be the same way with any US President, by the way.
Voltaire compels met to say “Neither” - I shall say to her “Ma’am, have you seen the Archbishop of Canterbury, I have to hang you by his entrails…or was it hang him by your entrails, I forget…”. Or that’s how it goes in my head.