I think I’ve realized something about why pessimism bothers me

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’ve posted threads and started discussions quite a few times recently over the past four years about whether people who feel pessimistic about the future are telling me to give up, if they’re practicing what they’re preaching and making major life changes on its basis, and so on. I think I’ve figured out why doom and gloom, however justified, has bothered me. It’s because I think it’s a roundabout indictment of how I live my life.

Right now, my personal life is going pretty good. I have a job I’m not in apparent danger of losing anytime soon, so I’ve been mostly keeping my head down, seeing time pass relatively quickly by just anticipating the next weekend eagerly.

If my acquaintance from my IMHO thread is right, I shouldn’t be doing that. I should quit my job and move somewhere safe, maybe overseas. I should be learning how to shoot. I should be gathering supplies.

It’s similar to this very board. The drumbeat in Politics is that Trump is going to cheat, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Any reason for optimism is hushed as “complacency.” There’s no sense of hope, no sense of purpose, no sense of motivation. It’s like there’s a resignation to his victory, like he actually is the invincible god-emperor he and his voters think he is.

If they’re right, if a fascist regime is at hand and climate change is about to kill us, I should be taking to the streets. I should be learning how to shoot (again). I should be organizing and fundraising and marching and doing everything I can to keep the wolves and the water levels at bay, because my loved ones and I are in existential danger. I certainly shouldn’t be sitting in my apartment, playing video games. The world is about to burn, and I need to do something, or I’m going to burn with it. Or maybe I’ll burn anyway, but at least I’d go down fighting.

So I think I ask these questions to justify, in my mind, either upending my life to fight for my survival or to go on as normal, to get a sense of whether it’s reasonable to do the former and whether those who don’t see much reason to hope for the future think I should (my thinking says that they’re implying it by their outlook, but I could be wrong). There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground, with stakes this high. I know the answer I probably “want,” but at the same time, if I’m not facing reality, I should at least acknowledge it and maybe try to change my perspective.

Am I making sense here? Any thoughts on any of this?

2

Judging by the number of people in various threads urging everybody to get out and vote, no, I don’t think there’s general resignation to Trump’s victory.

I think you’re confusing ‘the danger is real’ for ‘there’s no hope!’ People don’t post warning signs about danger, however real the danger is, when there’s no hope; they post warning signs in the hope that the warnings will do some good – which means that there is hope that they will indeed do some good.

3

I do have a problem with people who assert or imply the inevitability of negative outcomes (absent a mound of evidence or a model with demonstrably very strong predictive powers that it truly is a certainty, or very nearly so, like someone opining that a plane is going to crash and burn after the wings fall off), but my problem with such positive (negative) assertions has less to do with the level pessimism implied and more to do with a general dislike for people asserting conclusions without warrant, or at least without sufficient basis for the level of certainty they’ve laid out.

So, while I wouldn’t consider it outside the realm of possibility, to carry on with an already used example, that Trump might try to cheat or “steal” the election, I would take issue (or simply refuse to engage) with an assertion that “Trump is going to steal the election and we might as well all get used to it.” Or words to that effect.

My distaste for bad or a lack of skepticism aside, I also sometimes sense a kind of… I wouldn’t quite call it trolling, but something subversive or at least disingenuous in such “pessimistic” proclamations. Again, not because it’s pessimistic, but because I question what exactly that person’s motive is. Like when someone says “We’re all going to get COVID in the end, so we might as well just deal with it,” with the implication that we might as well just drop all this social distancing and mask wearing as a consequence of this supposed “inevitability,” a fait accompli, if you will.

4

I discussed this with a friend last night as well. I think it’s also about whether I have the courage of my convictions. If I’m not arming myself and attacking the houses of the CEOs destroying our environment, or at least spending my days calling Congress and organizing protests, do I lack the courage of my convictions? If I really believe in this existential threat, and I don’t do anything about it, what does that make me? Same with the threat Trump holds to democracy; I could at least be stockpiling weapons just in case, right?

The acquaintance I mentioned definitely had the courage of his convictions by making major life changes based on his fear. I wonder if that’s a good or a bad thing.

5

My personal philosophy is “think globally, act locally.” I am, after all, a very small being in a very large universe and even within my more immediate sphere I’m an old woman with limited means to change things. Nonetheless, I’m also a Wiccan and firmly believe that my intention and focus can (and do) send ripples out that will eventually change something clear on the other side of the universe and make cascading changes along the way. I won’t be around to see it, nor will I ever know what I set in motion resulted in but I believe it’s my sacred duty to send those ripples out regardless.

So I tend my garden (growing your own food is a revolutionary act and one thing anyone can do, even if it’s just a tomato plant in a pot on your balcony) and I help my neighbors and I speak my seditious opinions and make my arguments knowing I cannot directly MAKE things happen but also knowing that changing a person’s mind even a little bit will cause them to try to do the same to others they come in contact with, and if enough people decide to have things a certain way then they will make it so in spite of the tanks and the guns and the bombs. Because all those weapons and methods of force require PEOPLE to make them function and if people change their minds then there’s nobody to man the tanks and fly the planes to drop the bombs, etc.

And I also keep in mind that just because I believe something to be the right course of action, if those around me disagree then it’s their right to build their world to suit themselves even if I hate it. At that point, I have the choice (as I do with any other situation) of either adapting to the situation I hate or walking away and finding something I like better. Everything in life is a cost/benefit analysis, that’s very plain and simple, and we all do our calculations differently and have very different tolerance points. Humans aren’t a monolith, we’re all just struggling and pushing and striving to find a place where we can be comfortable and happy and it’s easy to see others as being evil when they’re just striving for a different outcome than the one I envision. I try to remember the human–but I keep in mind that it’s possible for a human to amass so much power that they’re able to enforce intolerable situations on millions of people in service to their own vision and at that point I don’t think it’s unreasonable to curtail that person–nobody should have that much power over others and I’m down with taking the ability to fuck people over out of their hands, by force if that’s the only means that works.

6

During the last 4 years, have your civil liberties been trampled upon? Has your right to free speech been suppressed? Has your right to pursue happiness been snuffed out?

Even if Trump is elected for another 4 years (God help us all), I have faith that they way I live my life and the people around me will continue. Will we all be happy about how the country is run? Probably not. Will have the right to stockpile guns if I want to? Most likely.

I have faith and confidence in our country in the big picture. The constitution doesn’t guarantee that things will be run the way I want them. And it can’t nor should it.

7

I don’t mean this facetiously or sarcastically but, I’m not pessimistic, I’m realistic. I was in the Canadian military from 1979 to 2011, during which time I saw the appearance of Gorbachev (IMHO a very good man), the end of the Cold War and its attendant optimism and excitement, the subsequent spread of democracy, the first Black president of the US and, despite some negatives in there (Gulf War II for example) I believed that things (“the human project” as I once heard it referred to) were going generally in the right direction.

Fast forward a few years and it’s apparent that climate change, if not at a tipping point, is bloody close; Russia’s now a kleptocracy; the current president of the US is, actively or passively I can’t really say, dismantling a lot of the positive post-WW II institutions, sucking up to despots, lying about and contradicting science, facilitating the spread of racism (all of these things being supported by about half the US population; and on and on and on.

And these things aren’t just weird acts of god. They’re being driven by people as though the human race has decided to become stupid. Despite our best efforts, especially in the US, people are actively fighting for the right to continue propelling a pandemic.

I apologize for the rant btw.

8

I think there is a middle ground. Personally, I find doing nothing makes me feel worse, but I also try to be realistic about what I can accomplish. I cannot single-handedly save the world. I can vote, support candidates I like, discuss my opinions with others, and I would love to garden sigh.

Of course, prepare for the worst and hope for the best is a valid strategy. I haven’t gone full prepper, but I do occasionally look at immigration requirements for other countries. I wouldn’t completely change your life, but I do think you should look realistically at what could happen, and do what you can to stop it.

9

A true pessimist perspective would say that there’s nothing that we can do, that there is resignation to Trump’s victory. What you’re saying is optimist talk.

Pessimism of the type you seem to be talking about is an appeal to laziness - nothing can be done, so sitting around and playing video games is a viable option. As a lazy person myself I like this kind of laziness and (wouldn’t you know it) I don’t think there’s anything I could do that would have any better of an effect than sitting around! So I can sit around without guilt! Yay!

Well, except voting. That I should do.

(Except that that’s still a complete waste of time and will have no effect - I’m in Idaho and Trump will win here no matter what I do. Yay. Still though, ceremonial gestures are ceremonial, no matter how stupid and pointless.)

10

If the answer to either of these first two questions was yes, you’d never hear the answer, for one reason or another. Just sayin’.

ETA: Survival bias! That’s what I’m going for!

11

I’m pessimistic about the future of American society because that’s where the math and the logic take me. It’s just a matter of time before the results make my pessimism’s validity even more evident than it has to date.

12

Oh? Do tell.

13

I’m surprised that it even requires an explanation.

Where do I start? There’s climate change. There’s the national debt. There’s the fake fed-propped economy. American democracy is slipping into a authoritarian republican hybrid. There’s the worst inequality in more than a century. And that’s just here - let’s not forget we’re impacted by what happens beyond our own borders as well.

14

It does (or did) because people with very different fears also like to avail themselves of the “math and logic” rationale. But we don’t need to discuss such people here. I hope.

ETA: Not that I’m saying “math and logic” actually say what you think they’re saying, only that to the extent your post excited comment, it had more to do with the “what is this code for?” rather than the “is it necessarily as well supported as the poster thinks?” side of things.

15

Well said!

16

Suit yourself, I guess.

All I can say is that, whether we’re talking about the climate, economics, or politics, the path we’re on is unsustainable. I suppose I could go spend an hour Googling to pull a bunch of cites, but I’ll have to be getting to work soon.

17

There’s no need to do that. It’s just a bit of a quibble over what “math and logic” can tell us about the future and how clearly they can tell it. Its not that we disagree on what to be concerned about, it’s just a question of expression. And, again, I am sensitive to “math and logic” or similar code (you might even call them dog whistles) being used as a reason to express “concern” for our “future.”

18

Sorry to put you on the spot, asahi, but I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to sort of demonstrate what I’m talking about by asking you directly the questions that I feel are being implied, as discussed in my OP.

So what would you say is your message to me with this post, if any? What do you think I should be doing as a result? What are you doing? Does any of it require fundamental changes to the way I/we live life? If I don’t, would that be a reason to judge me?

19

Fair questions to ask, and I actually thought about that earlier before and after posting.

I don’t have a one-sized fits all message. In my ideal world, we would collective unify behind the magic candidate and the magic party, which would then go to work and do its thing. But it’s always more complex than that, and as much as I like to think Americans or one group among us is uniquely stupid, the more general truth is that history is full of examples of humans and human “civilization” tripping over our own shoelaces.

The only thing I’m doing is trying to remain politically aware and involved on one hand, but then there’s the everyday business of working, earning a paycheck, paying bills, and still living in the moment, which everyone ought to do regardless of whether they believe they see an asteroid headed straight for us in the year 2028. For one thing, there’s still probably time enough to come up with a way to do something about that asteroid, and if there isn’t, there may be time enough to get to the least impacted part of the planet before everyone else if the inevitable comes to pass.

I can judge you or anyone all I want, but you can always reject that judgment. And in any case, judgment by itself won’t solve anything. At the same time, there’s nothing wrong with being “alarmist” and trying to make everyone else aware of a danger. That’s what our species does.

20

Exactly. You cannot save the world.

But, what you can do instead is to act in such a way that if everyone did the same, then the world would not need saving.