Really? What time is it then? Shall we sit back and wait for the next such incident, or shall we take steps to protect the citizens and guests of our country from a self-avowed mortal enemy? I know you said you aren’t necessarily against “the war,” or that we should simply cower, but what’s the point of more talk? We gave 'em an option; it was declined leaving us no real choice to make here, nor should there be any debate on the proper course of action.
How’d ya like to make a little wager? I’ll bet ya 1000 bucks, in this “war on terrorism,” the U.S. and their allies, don’t come close to killing 5000 innocent people.
This is an insult to every person in the country with the minimal intellect necessary to understand that while civilians inevitably die in war, their deaths are neither to be sought after or to be rejoiced in.
If you expect anyone to take your “give peace a change” rhetoric seriously, it would behoove you not to so grossly misstate the opposing position that you offend those of us who happen to think the U.S. is carefully and so far correctly treading a very difficult path – one where easy answers and facile solutions are nowhere to be found. If you continue to misstate the complexities of this engagement, you will rightly be dismissed as an uninformed looney who doesn’t even understand the realities of the action he purports to oppose.
That’s wholly absurd. No one is advocating killing innocent people, and certainly no one will be at all glad if there are civilian casualties.
But the individuals we are pursuing have been killing innocent people for years and have every intention of continuing to kill innocent people. And they give every indication of both being quite glad about it and getting better at it. They are going to keep killing innocent people here and in their captive population until we stop them. Which we at least have to try to do.
You do realize how utterly unsupported and ridiculous that statement is, right? It has nothing to do with being “contentious”, it has to do with being “uninformed”.
The U.S. has nothing to gain by bombing innocent civilians. And, perhaps surprising as this may be to you, the folks who are doing the bombing realize this!
The military efforts under way currently would not be possible without either the explicit or implicit support of numerous nations. Just how long do you expect that support to remain if, as you claim, civilians are being slaughtered wholsesale by indiscriminate bombing?
Again, the U.S. has nothing to gain, and everything to lose by doing what you claim they will be doing. Would you care to explain how this concept might have escaped our leaders?
This is not to say that there might not be some indiviudals who might behave as you expect (i.e., be glad that we’re killing people). However, it is erroneous to assume that the actions and opinions of those few are representative of the U.S. population in general.
Will civilians die in this conflict? Undoubtedly. Especially if the terrorists stick to their modus operandi. It should be noted that it will be the followers of bin Laden, et al., who will be deliberately targetting and killing civilians in this conflict, not the U.S.-led coalition. Will anyone be happy about it? Only the extreme radicals on both sides, I’m sure.
Um, forgive me for quoting that whole thing, but I am just wondering WHERE in my statement did I DENY that innocent people’s lives are going to be lost? In point of fact, I stated that this WILL happen, and that I grieve for it. However, as I ALSO stated, I see no viable alternative.
And BTW, this statement is sick and wrong and if you think that ANYONE in this country will be “GLAD” that innocent people will be killed, I feel sorry for you. Knowledge that something is going to happen does not make you HAPPY that it is going to happen. And if we could do this withOUT killing innocent people, you can be sure that we would DO it. How could ANY decent caring person be GLAD of another person’s death? I personally won’t even be GLAD when the terrorist’s die, but I certainly see that there is no way to deal with them SHORT of that. If the Taliban had given the terrorists up to an international court of law, then innocent people would NOT be in the line of fire. The Taliban chose not to…so we should just say, “oh, okay then…come on over and slaughter innocent people HERE anytime you want!” I think NOT!
What exactly IS your point, White Lightening? Do you HAVE a point? Or are you just trying to pick a fight? Just trying to make this into some nasty intellectual debate?
Well, if so, I decline. I may not be your intellectual equal, but I have a heart and a soul that aches for the men, women and children who HAVE died, and who WILL die because of the horrendous acts of the few. I am going to quote Star Trek here, because it is apt for this situation. “The good of the many outweighs the good of the few.”
I was gonna wait and ponder and weigh my response to the outpouring of condemnation I’ve received in this thread, but this I’ve gotta respond to now.
I’m sorry if you took what I said personally, Scotticher, but my original post in this thread was never meant as a negative response to your post. The reason I quoted you was because I thought your reaction was so wholly appropriate. The quote from John Carroll’s column was meant as an expansion and illustration of the feeling you were describing. I am 100% in agreement with your position. This whole thing makes me sick. I’m really sorry if you felt that I was attacking you or trying to pick a fight with you because of what I said. As you say, it couldn’t be clearer – this is going to happen, it’s sad, but at this point it’s hard to see a viable alternative.
As for the rest of what you said, I’ll respond to that in my next post along with the rest of it.
Moderator’s Notes: You can make your response in the Pit. After thinking about this last evening, I’ve decided that’s where it belongs. Your statements are simply outrageous.
I’m not stunned. I’ve seen too much bigoted idiocy in my lifetime to be stunned by such a statement anymore. However, I am revolted.
This is an insult to every single person putting their life on the line to protect us from further acts by these murderous thugs. I’d like to see White Lightning repeat this statement in a room full of Marines.
I owe you an apology. When I initially read your reply to my post, I did think you were attempting to agree and expand on what I had said. Then as the thread continued, I got to reading it again and thinking that…well, what I said. I appreciate you clarifying for me what you meant.
Now as for the rest. I am going to ask everyone here (and some of you are good friends of mine, and I am asking you to please at least think about this) to take a deep breathe and wait for Lightning to respond. I think that he has worded what he thinks and feels somewhat differently than he meant to, and then things went downhill from there.
It is entirely possible that what he meant is a whole lot closer to what I said than it appeared.
Sure, Scotti, I can be calm and wait on some explanation of what he said. But whether he’ll claim to have meant it or not, what he did say, “The Unites States is going to kill innocent women and children, on purpose, and be glad of it…” is quite intentionally offensive, woefully absurd and bears no resemblance to anything that you said.
Incidentally, I agree with you, Scotti, as indicated above.
I appreciate your indulgence here. I might be wrong, but I am going to give Lightning the benefit of the doubt until he has explained. I think it is entirely too easy these days to fly off the handle and say things that you mean in a way that makes other people think you were saying things you DIDN’T mean.