Most of the Chinese-American places by my house are marginal food-wise. Just gloppy messes of overly cornstarch-thickened sauces with little flavor to them. There are a number of places that do this style very well, with lively flavors and still keeping to the same ingredient list, but I have to drive a few miles down into the city to get to them. And don’t even talk to me about the buffets. Just terrible. But it’s like any other cuisine here: some restaurants are excellent, most are average, and some are truly terrible. But knocking all of them down as “horseshit” is just a stupid fucking thing to say, and he deserves to be smacked down for it.
I lived in Indonesia and have spent a lot of time in Malaysia, Singapore and the Philippines. They all have large Chinese communities and Chinese food there is melded with local cuisine.Singapore, in particular has amazing Chinese food that incorporates Indian and Middle Eastern flavors. The only people I hear worrying about “authentic” Chinese food are white Americans, and yeah a white celebrity chef telling Chinese restranteurs that they’re doing it wrong is pretty pretentious. News flash: the food in most restaraunts is pretty mediocre; it’s why Applebee’s is a thing.
That’s it? And even a nod to chicken and waffles on the menu?
That’s a fairly standard and pedestrian menu. Maybe he wasn’t thinking of Chicago when he said “Midwest,” but my favorite Chinese place serves tendons, kidneys, pork intestine, frog, etc., in addition to more Americanized fare. His menu, to me, does not look any more “authentic” than the places he’s bitching about. And it’s fine. I’m sure his food is all right, but it is annoying to hear him put down businesses as “horseshit” because they cater to their clientele.
Now, I’m also sure his use of the word “horseshit” and the publicity that followed wasn’t accidental. We live in a culture that feeds on forcefully stated opinions. If you want to be big, you have to cause controversy, and you have to make bold, “honest” statements. It’s annoying as shit that an even-headed, tempered approach doesn’t work with the public en mass. You have to be a bit of an arrogant a-hole to get attention.
That’s not…terribly impressive.
It feels more like he’s shitting on the midwest more than he’s shitting on Chinese food. His examples are duck and chile oil as examples of exotic cuisine. I found this restaurant literally across the street from his, serving duck:
http://www.yangtze.us/menu.htm
I got that sense, too, which particularly chuffs me, as well. One of my favorite Asian foods I got was out in Green Bay. I found a Hmong/Thai restaurant that had somekind of homemade Hmong sausage on the menu. It was a delicious ginger-spiked pork sausage, one of the most delicious sausages I’ve ever eaten. And the best part was, they were actually able to sell the uncooked product to me (vacuum sealed and made for retail sale. Turns out the family owns a farm where they make and market their own sausages. And they sold it to me a 5 pound bag at $15!!!)
I’d be willing to bet there are more “authentic” Asian restaurants in the Twin Cities, where Zimmern’s restaurant is open. I found this recent article from the Star-Tribune that talks about it, and goes into what it means to be authentic and how menus are adjusted for local tastes, but also mentions that “most Chinese restaurants also carry a second menu with dishes from mainland China, served in the communal style Chinese patrons prefer.”
While Chicago has lots of great Asian food, I admit that I’ve never had decent Chinese there. Thai, Vietnamese, yes.
When my daughter comes home from the U of C, she gets NYC Chinese takeout several times a week, and haunts her favorite places in both the Manhattan and Brooklyn Chinatowns. With an occasional trip out to Flushing, Queens.
There is an Asian grocery store here with what seems to be frozen insects. They resemble trilobites. I wonder how they are used in cooking.
Dried tiny shrimp?
They are great for infusing chicken broth for homemade egg drop soup. There’s a wonderful recipe on The NY Times cooking app.
I don’t think we have NYC style Chinese here. But I’ve loved many of the Sichuan and even plain ol’ Cantonese places I’ve found here. And I’m a sucker for hand-pulled noodles. One of my absolute favorite dishes, which I’ve never seen anywhere else, was certainly not authentic because of its inclusion of butter, but there was a restaurant called Double Li here which did the usual Sichuan style dishes. However, they also had this black pepper beef dish which was divine. There’s a video of it being made here. Basically, marinated beef, garlic, oyster sauce, and butter. It’s that butter and black pepper mixed with oyster sauce and the tons of garlic and hint of ginger from the beef marinade that made it delightful. I’ll have to try recreating that dish one day.
I don’t think there’s a “New York Style” of Chinese food. Just that I (and Little Pianola) haven’t been lucky enough to find a Chicago restaurant that whupped up the grub well enough to satisfy a San Franciscan or a New Yorker. Next trip I make out to the Windy City, I promise to ask you for recommendations.
Don’t think I’m trying to undermine your civic pride…Mexican food in NYC was utter shit all through the eighties and nineties, until some actual Mexicans decided to move here. Meanwhile, Chi had excellent family style Mexican joints in the Pilsen neighborhood, and also Rick Bayless. It happens.
The best beef I ever ate was served in a Chinese joint in a bowling alley in Galena, IL. I guess Nebraska sends its best beef East. Or Iowa grows better cows.
Oh, you’re becoming familiar with Andrew Zimmern. He’s all manner of kinds of dick. And don’t be fooled by his wide-eyed-innocent Minnesotan schtick. He’s from New York.
There is something different about NYC takeout Chinese though. I’m not sure what it is, but l, I dunno, maybe there’s just a higher concentration of good Chinese takeout. But, for example, I had never heard of “duck sauce” at local places here—it’s all just sweet and sour. Like NYC style pizza. I live out myriad pizzas and think Chicago is a great pizza town for all sorts of styles, but I’ve never had anything that quite reminds me of an East Coast slice.
You know, I thought of the Bánh mì right after I posted. That’s a great sandwich and a nice blend of Vietnam and France. But I don’t think the poster I quoted was thinking of them. And if you get a “real” Bánh mì and not the touristy type, the meats can be, ahh, a bit odd for the average American.
But what is “OC”?
Dennis
Orange County, California. Home to one of the largest Vietnamese populations outside of Vietnam.
Mangda, Thai water bug: https://www.thaitable.com/thai/ingredient/water-bug
The wife grinds them and puts it into some food. It’s an unusual smell. You can also buy the essence in a tiny little jar and it is a crystal clear liquid. Smells the same.
Dennis
Portland is a town full of foodies and we get all kinds of interesting world and world/fusion cuisine here–my biggest quibble is that apparently most Portlanders are total weenies about spice in their food because I have to almost have a fight with the Thai places to get them to put some actual heat in their dishes for me. When I get done with a curry or pad Thai I want my sinuses cleared, my ears to be a bit red and eyes watering, dammit!
There’s one little Chinese restaurant near me that I hadn’t tried but as I’d drive past I’d notice there were only Asian people in the restaurant, which is pretty unusual for a considerably Caucasian city like this one. Went in one day and the menu had all the crazy stuff Americans don’t eat on it–not being familiar with a lot of it, I just asked the waitperson to bring me what he’d bring his auntie and don’t bother telling me what’s in it. To this day I couldn’t tell you what it was but he definitely took my request to heart and the cook staff were probably giggling at making the American eat weird things. Jokes on them, I lived in Japan for several years and got pretty used to eating weird shit and liking it, up to and including snacking on crispy grasshoppers and shredded octopus snacks. Whatever I ate that day, it was all absolutely delicious and I regret nothing. Haven’t been back there in a while, it’s probably past time I essay this experiment again.
And the best Korean food I’ve had was in Montana. Nothing inherent to Montana about it (though all the beef you get around there, from anywhere, is excellent); there just happens to be a Korean immigrant living in Bozeman who’s a great cook (and also a great businesswoman).
Amusingly (to me) when I hear “duck” I just think of Polish-Bohemian anyway. Exotic! 
They sure look like roaches.