Apparently, for an extreme majority it is not currently possible. Why does this reality piss off so many people?
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Hi. My first post, a friend told me about this thread. Interesting.
Anyway, if someone has ADD their brain doesn’t work the way that yours works. You’re wrong when you say that it is a lie. A person with ADD can’t “choose” to have control (in the way you mean) anymore than a person who is depressed can choose to not be depressed, or a person who has bi-polar disorder can choose not to have it. And even better example is a person with Tourettes syndrome, because they can control themselves, but only in a very limited way that ultimately breaks down, and that’s similar to the impulse control problems that ADD people have. It is a chemical problem in their brains that affects the way they experience things and behave.
And someone with syndrome X might not be able to control eating. Obesity severely recodes/changes the signaling. Kinda takes a lot of control out of it.
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Oh, BS.
I know at least two formerly obese folks off the top of my head that are no longer obese and havent been that way for a long time.
I seriously doubt they are the only two in my state.
Are they the majority of obese people I know? No
Do I know 200 other similarly obese people at the same social level I know them? No
Do I know 100? No
Do I know 50? No
Do I know 25? No
Do I know 10? Now we are getting somewhere.
So, off the top of my head, with the folks I know, something like 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 obese people have gotten it under control. Out of those that haven’t, as far as I can tell a sizable fraction aren’t even trying nd or don’t even care. Another about equal fraction are sorta trying. And about another equal fraction are trying pretty hard but keep backsliding or are doing something wrong (like trying fad diets rather than changing their relationship with food).
Yeah, the odds aren’t that good, but lay off the freak business.
You’re making it sound as if “ooh, cookie” triumphs over heart disease, joint pain, high blood pressure, etc. But for many people it’s a choice between those health issues and the things I was discussing earlier:
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Having all of your energy going into fighting the cravings, so that there is none left over for job, relationships, etc.
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Being so miserable that you are unable to function
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Sapping your will to live
It’s not so much that the pleasure of food trumps the pleasure of being a normal weight, it’s that the misery of not having the food you want is a living hell.
It’s great that you were able to avoid that, but as Zyada points out, you attribute that ability to your personality. Not everyone has your personality. I give you that anyone could physically give up unhealthy eating, but at what mental cost?
I agree with everyone who says that you need to change your relationship with food, the question is how? I don’t think anyone has come up with a satisfactory answer that works for more than a single individual. And until we can figure out how to do this and share that information, then no diet, low-carb, low-calorie, or anything else, is going to work.
Billfish: Is it 1 in 5 or 1 in 10? 1 in 20? What? 90% failure rate? What? It’s way worse than that.
I’ve heard all this, crap before you spew yet work in the industry and fail to see it. Sorry. Like I’ve never experienced your claims before. Jesus, over the course of your life, of all the people running towards the goal… stop, you’re killing me with your numbers.
I can go to my gym and open the books and see the names of 800 new clients who were “highly motivated” and spent time, money, energy and have been through multiple attempts. I go all over the community, and where are all these successful stories? Where? I don’t know if 3 of the 800 will succeed.
The problem with your stance is that in flies in the face of the reality that is out there, while mine jives with it.
I can’t scrape together a list of people who went from obese to ideal BMI and stayed that way for years.
Sorry… Can’t do it.
You are using “possible” in a way that is different than I use “possible”. I would prefer to say that it’s very difficult, hard to achieve, and extremely hard to sustain. But it was possible for me, and I did it by changing my relationship to food. I met many folks in Weight Watchers who have gone from obese to a healthy BMI by changing their relationship with food. I also met many folks (far more, in fact) that weren’t successful.
For most folks (barring medical and psychological issues that would prevent it) it is physically possible to do so. It’s also very, very, very hard. Of course we should be looking at tools, techniques, and information that will help people lead healthy, happy lives. Lots of folks are working on that today. There are a plethora of choices for programs, diets, and medical procedures today, but they’re not working as well as we’d like.
I’m not sure the point of your argument. Are you saying that nothing can be done? Are you saying we need to invest more to find new techniques/tools/information? Are you saying people are doomed to remain obese in today’s society? We get that you don’t think changing your relationship with food is practical for many (most?) people even though it has worked for some of us. My question is what course of action do you recommend we as a society should follow to help people lead healthy happy lives?
If not eating junk food does these things to you- LITERALLY makes you suicidal, etc.- then you deeply need therapy. I’m saying this as a fat person who is working to get in better shape. Sure, it’s not easy (but for me, it’s not easy just because I’m a poor planner and eating better requires planning, otherwise you stop at the drive thru), but it most certainly shouldn’t “sap your will to live.”
If your relationship with food is truly THAT unhealthy, you are in desperate need of professional help. I’m not saying this in that mocking, sneering, internet point and laugh at the fatty way, but I mean it in the way I’d tell this to a friend who expressed a similar sentiment to me. If a friend with a drinking problem said not having alcohol made them want to kill themselves- and actually meant it- I’d suggest they go to rehab. Same thing here. If the problem is that deeply in you, then that’s the type of thing you shouldn’t even try to face on your own- this is what professionals are for.
Frank Bruni alternately fought and used bulimia as a weight-loss tool, ballooned up to 270 lbs, and at age 36 decided enough was enough. He worked out and used moderation in eating. (The linked interview was done in 2009, making it about 8 years after his decision to lose weight.)
He’s loved food all his life, as has his family. His job was food critic for the New York Times, and is now their food writer.
Did he change his personality? Maybe. He says he’s learned moderation without returning to bulimia, and obviously food was/is a huge part of his background and his career.
Changing your eating is tough, because people don’t want to have to think about their food. They want to eat for lots of reasons, and not analyze. Well, lots of things in life are hard. If for you eating has deep psychological components, then you need to get in there and do tough, painful work if you’re going to fix that. Absolutely no diet will help you if you can’t face your food issues.
I stopped eating meat (all animal flesh or byproducts, not including dairy/eggs) two decades ago. It is habit to read labels, educate myself on where meat ingredients might be ‘hiding’ in my food, and how to get sufficient protein when I’m not a big eggs-and-dairy consumer. I didn’t stop eating meat because it tasted bad, either. These days I regard it as not-food, which I will cook for others but have no desire to taste.
Similarly, I’m working on my tendency to stress-eat for comfort or boredom alleviation. When I gain 15 lbs over the fall and winter, taking me out of a normal BMI, because work is rough and the holidays have lots of food, that’s something I have to take responsibility for, and work to change. I’m slowly tapering off the weight by very moderate calorie reduction and altering my eating habits and my thought patterns about eating. I’m back in the normal BMI range and am continuing down to my goal weight. Beck’s cognitive behavioral therapy book about eating sounds fabulous and right up my alley, as it shows how you can break harmful thought processes around eating and investing it with meaning that isn’t innate to it.
I still truly, deeply love food. I just don’t turn to it as a comfort very much these days.
Yet, I’ve got two right off the top of my head. I could probably come up with more, but then the total number of obese people I know that meet the same level of familiarity criteria would go up too so its probably a wash percentage wise. What are the odds that my random sample is freakishly lucky?
Keep in mind my experience a random sample. The folks that come to you are the people who have probably already failed a dozen times over. Or they think they can pay to be thinner. The people who could do it probably didnt come to you in the first place. Then again, maybe “your” method just doesnt work?
Yeah, the “just do it!” folks probably arent helping matters. But, on your end, “the its impossible!” aren’t either. I’d even argue thats the worser of the two evils.
Yea, I don’t get the whole “energy to fight cravings” thing. That’s the second time she’s mentioned it.
I *love *French fries, but when they’re offered to me I simply don’t eat them. It doesn’t require me to expend energy to not eat them.
Ferret Herder: your experiences sound *very *much like my own.
You assume that we have total control of our brains.
Speaking as a person with a BA in Psychology, and a person with Attention Deficit Disorder, and a person who has probably had more than her share of SOs with mental problems, I can assure you that you have far less control over your brain than you think you do, even for a person of your personality style.
I have spent my entire life being told - “You can do it if you just try hard enough”. And not about weight. About school and work and relationships, and all the other aspects of living that you probably take for granted. I have felt like crying, and sometimes have actually cried because someone wanted me to be a certain way and [James Kirk] I just couldn’t do it [/James Kirk].
When you blithely state that anyone can lose weight just by exerting self-control, you are being patronizing, and you are being judgemental about people you do not know and who live in a world you would not be able to comprehend.
And that makes you part of the problem. I’ve seen enough studies that show that stress, depression and social stigma cause weight gain at a hormonal level (not at a behavioral one) to know that.
And don’t give me that “I was just telling her what worked for me” BS. No, you said “If you don’t do this, you will fail”.
Do a search on ADD for threads started by myself. The last month should be fine.
I don’t buy the argument that a person is not in control of what they stick in their mouth. I think it’s nonsense.
I agree completely. That’s why I believe that for many people, therapy, or some form of mental health treatment is the only solution for obesity. Maybe my experiences have colored my thinking, but the yo-yo dieters I know, the obese people who try, and try, and try again to lose weight, and even succeed on occasion, but always gain it back, all seem to have deeply ingrained issues that prevent them from eating in a healthy way. I guess I’ve never really known anyone like Crafter-Man, who love food, but can just give it up without serious emotional ramifications. I think that he is painting with too broad a brush when he implies that most people can just stop eating too much, but maybe I am doing the same thing by thinking that it’s almost impossible to do without psychological help. I guess the visible people, the dieters and the obese, are the ones who struggle. People who can just eat healthy with discipline alone are invisible in the dieting world, because they are no longer fat.
I actually agree with this. As I’ve repeatedly said, obesity is a mental problem, not a physical problem.
I have never smoked, but I think the best analogy I can give is people addicted to cigarette smoking. There are many ex-smokers out there who gave it up cold-turkey. I did the same with bad food.
Anyone can do it. Here’s proof: Let’s say I am an angel sent from heaven. I wave a magical wand over an obese mother, and I tell her that her daughter would die unless she lost 120 pounds and maintained a normal BMI for the rest of her life. I am very confident she would suddenly find the discipline to lose the weight, and keep it off.
No, we struggle too. We miss out on all yummy foods, like ice cream, French fries, and fried chicken. Heck, just the other day my supervisor brought in homemade cherry cupcakes made by his wife. Damn, I really wanted one of those. 
That’s hardly proof, that’s your speculation. I am very confident that the vast majority of obese women and yo-yo dieters that I know would be unable to keep the weight off, even if it cost them a child. There are plenty of women whose children have died because they could not control their addictions - drunk driving alcoholics being only the most obvious example. Until that angel appears, we’ll have to call this one a draw.
But somehow, you were presumably able to do your work all day without being distracted by those cherry cupcakes. You didn’t get up numerous times to casually walk by them. You didn’t go back to your desk and clench your fists trying to keep from eating one. And you didn’t finally grab your wallet and sneak out of work in the middle of the afternoon to satisfy your craving in private. This is what many, many obese people suffer. How many days, weeks, months and years of that could you take before you succumbed? You are extrapolating your experience to everyone, and it’s just not valid. If you have the secret to breaking the emotional connection with food so that you don’t experience that kind of struggle on a continual basis, then please share it, because there are plenty of people who could benefit. But “anyone can do it” is not a solution, any more than the fact that some smokers can quit cold turkey means that anyone can.
And there’s another counterexample for your angel. How many pregnant women continue to smoke, knowing the risks for their unborn child, because they are unable to quit? And how many allow their babies to die because of it?
A recent episode of Radiolab discussed ways some people deal with being their own worst enemy. One suggestion was that many people just can’t seem to let long-term goals win out over short-term. The first segment discussed two women who had been friends for years, and were now senior citizens. One quit smoking a long time prior, while the other had not. When the second woman decided to quit smoking, she made not-smoking a short-term priority: both of them had been highly active in the Civil Rights Movement in the '60s, so she pledged that if she smoked again, she would donate money to the KKK. Obviously, you have to be motivated to be honest with yourself to pull something like this off, but it worked for her. In her brain, it was no longer “feel better someday” versus “smoke now”; it was “donate money to the KKK?!!! no way!” versus “smoke now.” She didn’t slip, and stopped.
A baby being born healthy is a long-term goal. Not getting type II diabetes is a long-term goal.
People wanting to try this would have to be self-aware enough to be able to determine something that deeply meaningful for them, and to have the conscience to be able to stick with the promise to themselves. In light of that, I would hope the ‘quitter-to-be’ has been able to get themselves to a strong mindset.
Full disclosure: Since the assertion is being made by some that once you’re obese, you can almost never lose weight long-term, I will note that I have not been obese. I have been overweight. In addition, my mother and I have the same body frame, and she has fought obesity all her life. I don’t think I ever remember her at a normal weight, just overweight or the low end of obese. Her mother was obese for as long as I can remember, and grandma developed type II diabetes. I grew up in a blue-collar family where there were many times where employment was precarious and often my mother worked second shift just to keep us afloat and be there during the day for child care. I sometimes stock (not hoarding-level, fortunately) my cupboards with food to feel secure, as a result. If there is such a thing as genetic predisposition and/or environmental predisposition towards being overweight or obese, I certainly have those factors. I understand obsessing over wanting a snack, and I think cognitive behavioral therapy, even just self-directed with a workbook, is an excellent way of overcoming those kinds of unfortunate emotional entanglements with eating.
Maybe. And maybe it’s all the dieting.
The following is from the book, “Handbook for Treatment of Eating Disorders”
And for the record, compulsive overeating is also an eating disorder.