I want to be a conservative

I wish that I could be a conservative.

I would love to find a group of people who are sober, careful, risk-averse, who do not rush into things, who believe in a well-ordered, well-run society.

People who truly, truly believe that tax revenue is a sacred trust, that the nature of the necessary evil of involuntary taxation means that we have to treat every one of those golden dollars as precious and be sure not to spend a penny needlessly.

People that realize that the practical and the compassionate are not only not antagonistic, they are one and the same. We are practical because we are compassionate, and want to enact our compassion in the most effective and efficient way possible. We owe each other nothing less.

People who realize that society is not merely a playground for the pursuit of pleasure, wealth, and material gain, but an interlocking series of obligations, duties, and rewards, and you cannot have the benefits without paying the necessary price and making the sacrifices. The fact that modern society demands so little of us in terms of labour and effort should not cause us to think everything in life should be free of charge as well. The fact that all the wonders of the modern age come to us without our having to do a thing besides pay our taxes should not cause us to think, naively, that only we could get rid of those taxes, why, everything would be perfect. You have duties as well as rights.

People who take governance seriously. People who realize that society needs rules and these rules need to be enforced, for the betterment of all, and this does not end when you enter the world of high finance, corporations, billions of dollars, and the lives and jobs of millions of people, and the products they use. If anything, this realm needs more regulation than the rest of society, not less, as the stakes are so much higher and the rewards for malfeasance so much larger.

People who realize that corruption is an eternal, enduring, and implacable threat, and that because the crooks and con artists never stop trying to figure out a way to just break open the piggy bank and take what they want, we have to be just as inventive in thinking of ways to stop them. And that the most dangerous crooks wear suits and fly around in private jets and do everything in their power to look like pillars of society while they rifle through the treasury and make off with anything that isn’t nailed down hard enough.

People who realize that a free society is always perched precariously between the forces of fascism and anarchy and that neither side can be allowed to run rampant. Moderation, sober second thought, and careful consideration are not merely good ideas, they’re vital.

People who realize that the smart solution is often not the one with the most sex appeal or excitement. It’s often a compromise, and therefore does not make anyone entirely happy.

People who realize that when it comes to government, it’s quality, not quantity that matters. There’s no idea size. There’s just good government, or bad.

Anyone know where I can find conservatives like this?

Because from what I can tell. they don’t exist.

So, aside from being a generic insult thread less exciting than the Pit but roughly equal in content, a few of your propositions are highly dubious. And you have the unpleasant correlation that people who meet your demands are unlikely to be able to get elected, for which you have only the people, and their embrace of personality-politics, to blame.

That doesn’t sound like being conservative to me. The practical and the compassionate are one and the same? Since when? Liberal hippy.

What you’ve described are now called “moderates”. They are found mostly in the Democratic Party.

Well, you aren’t going to find them on the SDMB, that’s for sure.

Regards,
Shodan

I see good things for this thread. It should be a fascinating ‘debate’…

-XT

shrug Since I’m not seeing the debate I figured I’d interject my own thoughts on a few things that are rather tangential to the, um, OP.

Is anyone else seeing the irony of the current situation? It’s like reverse deja vu. In 2000 conservatives were on top of the world. They had finally ‘defeated’ the liberals and completely discredited their political philosophy (uhuh). Hell, in the last 20 or so years liberals even stopped calling themselves ‘liberals’, going to the label progressive instead. The conservatives held sway (seemingly) over all of the reigns of power…they controlled the Presidency and the house and senate, and they had a serious shot at even gaining control of the Judiciary for the first time in…well, a LONG time…as well. And they expected this trend to continue indefinitely because THEY HAD WON!! Woohoo!

And now we have the same kind of over the top caricaturization of the evil and misguided ‘conservative’ positions, the same crowing about how conservatism has been discredited and the same feelings that seemingly it’s going to be a liberal paradise for now and for every so help me Og! Well, without all the popular talk show stuff of course…the liberal message hasn’t quite trickled down to translate to the masses yet…but give it time.

ETA: Oh yeah…and the frantic response from the conservatives about all the bad stuff that is coming down the pike from the evil left reminds me SO much of the same kind of frantic handwringing from the left when GW won in 2000. Whether it’s abortion or gun control, the sides change but the frantic hand wringage is just amusing.

Anyway, as a moderate (well, I think of myself that way) it’s just sort of funny how these things progress…and it’s sort of funny to see the faithful of both sides do pretty much exactly the same stupid shit as their arch enemies when it’s THEM that has the whip.

Anyway, hijack over, I return ya’ll to what will assuredly be a fascinating discussion…

-XT

Cite?

Regards,
Shodan

Then why don’t you become a conservative? Nothing’s stopping you.

(oh, you knew this was coming)

My post is my cite…

-XT

Would you say that all (or even most) moderates are described by the OP? I figured it was sort of catch-all term for anybody who didn’t fit another party label and weren’t a looney wingnut extremist.

Generally, yes, I do.

That is despite efforts by the Religious Right, ever since the Gingrich/Fox/Cheney faction gained power, to define “liberal” as “anyone more thoughtful and less judgmental than us”. You see that crap even on this board, even today.

As John Prine put it, “You are what you are and you ain’t what you ain’t.” Whatever the label.

The OP does seem to be asking where to find more people like him, not to change himself in any way, though.

In retrospect, the left’s handwringing seems to have been justified. In my view, they were wrong only insofar as their imaginations failed them as to just how badly Bush really would do.

Will the right’s current handwringing play out the same way? I doubt it, because I think they overestimate Obama’s ability to actually do the things they suspect he would like to do (if he really does want to do them).

I disagree that it was justified. Essentially they were in a frantic hand wringing frenzy ABOUT THE WRONG THINGS. While they were worried about abortion being over turned or prayer being put in schools or any number of other dippy stuff that wasn’t going to happen they lost sight of the real problems. And then they over compensated with such over the top statements and positions that it made dismissing them easy…while they actually DID have a point.

I see the same thing happening here. Some conservatives are in an absolute frenzy about gun control, gay marriage and all number of other dippy things that aren’t going to happen…while also losing sight of what’s actually happening and going into such over the top caricaturization that they are pretty much easy to dismiss.

It’s amazing how things can change so much while really remaining the same…

-XT

Well, if you really want people to find things to debate… :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, thank goodness that FEMA did not rush into things when Hurricane Katrina struck. That could have been a total disaster if they hadn’t taken their time and had just leapt into action without thinking!
Oh, but there are a lot of authoritarians out there who believe in a “well ordered” society. :dubious:

The problem is that everyone thinks their own pet project is an essential expense (much like everyone thinks their side is the moderate and reasonable one and it’s the other side that is full of fanatical extremists, as ElvisL1ves came here to demonstrate for us).
Even something as relatively trivial as whether the government should be subsidizing people’s purchase of a digital converter box for TV is a controversial issue, much less what role the government should take in things that actually matter.

Unfortunately, a lot of bloated or corrupt govt programs started out as well-intentioned efforts at compassion that went awry.
My own view is that while we may indeed have a moral or ethical obligation to be compassionate to others, it is up to each person’s individual conscience to decide what that obligation is, not the role of politicians who may mean well but be clueless about the realities of society, or who may have a hidden agenda.

Okay, you go first in making these “sacrifices” and “paying the price”. I’m not sure what this means exactly, so you need to show us how it’s done.

Well, yes, it would be silly to expect that we could continue to use govt services with no tax revenue coming in. I think most libertarians (if those are the people you’re addressing to here) simply hold the belief that the services the govt provides aren’t worth what we’re paying for them.

Yeah, let’s take a hint from China and just execute businesspeople who do bad things. That’ll do wonders for our economy surely.

That’s basically human nature for ya. Everyone is looking out for #1 first and foremost. I don’t really think there is any simple cure for that - including legislation. “The Government” certainly has enough of its own corruption, to the point that I am skeptical that any form of it would be able to completely police the corruption of the business world.

There are indeed a lot of power hungry bastards out there that would love to bring their own form of authoritarianism to our society. “Thinking it over” or being “moderate” isn’t going to stop those people. Someone that you may or may not think of as a conservative by your definition once said, “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
To protect ourselves from the fascists that will always be out there, I feel that the most important thing we can is take a firm, even extreme stance in favor of civil liberties and free speech (even when it comes to people we don’t like, a concept that many people struggle with).

Sometimes. But it really depends on the issue, and when you try to use this as a broad approach, it can be a fallacious form of reasoning.

Sounds like the conservatives I grew up with in the 80s, before the Republican party was hijacked by religeous fanatics and rednecks.

NO party is to be trusted. Success of the party comes before the good of the people or the good of the country.

We get to choose which dictators take our money to fill their coffers. Isn’t a 2 party system great?

I’ll extend kudos to the OP for a doing a great job of expressing Conservative ideals in good faith.

In fact, I am a conservative because I believe I should be living up to those ideals.

Being a conservative doesn’t mean being the perfect embodiment of those ideals, it means that’s what your striving for in yourself and engender in others.

I haven’t met any liberals who perfectly embody their ideals either.
It would be nice if we could all live up to our ideals, wouldn’t it?

Scylla, are you TRYING to provide an illustration of a “tu quoque” argument? Because if you are, you’re doing a damned fine job.