I WANT to buy a MAC!

In My Humble Opinion
21

Well, let me put it this way: I have personally ripped apart a friend’s PC, changed half the components to better ones donated by a generous friend, and put the whole thing in a new case. Try that with a Mac–it’s not impossible, but I don’t know anyone who’d try it. I have also watched my former roomate’s iMac fail to do half of what my 10 year-old laptop does. And when my computer crashes, I have a real power button, and don’t have to crawl under the table and unplug it–plus I can always just fix it from DOS .But maybe I just like being able to control what my computer does, instead of having some mindless “user-friendly” OS control what I can do…

OK, nuff ranting about silly silly macs :slight_smile:

22

  1. From my experience, software issues with Macs (such as higher prices, delays in Mac versions, or a total lack of Mac versions period) have been more about manufacturer greed and stubborness rather than real hardware/programming or demand obstacles.

  2. Some PC hardware components can be used on Mac machines. Also, the Macintosh platform has also contributed more to making multi-platform living easier. To this day, PCs cannot read Mac disks, but Macs have been able to read PC disks and files for years. And Linux is everywhere. What has Windows done? Pretty much nothing.

  3. Mac peripherals and hardware cost more, true. So why not direct that bitching at Canon, Epson, HP, etc. who ALSO make Mac peripherals? It’s not Apple alone guilty of this.

Kilgore, I have an iMac. I want stuff to match my machine too. But I will call anyone who refuses to buy something simply because it doesn’t match their computer an idiot, just as loudly as you will. That’s retarded.

  1. Why are aesthetics an issue? If it doesn’t work (e.g. the round mouse), then it’ll die. So what? That’s how it works for any other product. The machine is cute? So what? That’s more another reason to like it, rather than the SOLE reason to buy it.

  2. REAL MEN use UNIX or Linux? Wusses use Macs? REAL computing people use Windows? Come on. Forget that macho B.S. It’s a matter of preference. Everyone here is sticking up for what they prefer. No platform is inherently better than another.

23

Ohhhh, Kilgore hasn’t been paying attention!! [baglady kicks Kilgore’s tires for a moment.]

In the MacWorld Convention held in NYC the other week, Steve Jobs announced new iMac colors, the new G4 Cube, and… ta-da!!..

new optical mice!!

The new optical Apple Pro Mouse doesn’t require a mouse pad. It has no rollers, no track ball. They don’t even have a button!! What, no button? Apple explains it this way: “[T]he entire Apple Pro Mouse is in effect a super-sensitive button Ñ the body pivots up and down to actuate the click mechanism. It even lets you fine-tune the way it clicks, with user-adjustable click tension.”

Woo hoo! My understanding is that this comes with all the new iMacs. Also sold separately. (as is a new keyboard, since the current iMac keyboard sucks camel-dandruff.]

24

I switched to a Mac at home a few months ago after using PCs for years. I work at a company that makes Mac software, and it only took a year for me to be won over. We found a sweet deal on a G4-400 with an additional 256K memory for free. It’s great. It does what I need it to do - actually it’s more machine than I need.

You should buy the computer that fits your needs best. If you’re using it mainly for word processor-type stuff and email/web surfing/chatting, then you could probably go either way. I’ve heard that if you’re mainly going to use it for games, you should go with the PC.

And Baglady: the new Mac optical mice are really neat! One of the guys who went to MacWorld brought one back. The front of it clicks, but the pivot point is near the back of the mouse so that you can rest your hand on it without accidently clicking it. Now I know what I want for Christmas. (Along with a new keyboard to replace my dinky one that doesn’t even have an End key.)

25

ok. how does that justify the round mice? it doesn’t. i have been paying attention, just fine. the round mouse was a stupid idea, perhaps only attempted in order to be different. after all, that’s what mac is all about, isn’t it?

as far as your spectacular new optical mouse… how long have these been around? ages. i have one at home, on my PC.

now, please tell me what advantage this lack of button has. answer: NONE! why does mac try so hard to be different? who complained about mouse buttons? NOBODY!

then again, nobody asked for round mice either… this is apple we’re talking about.

so… do you have an attempt at explaining the round mouse, or not?

(by the way… the Intellimouse works just fine on a mac… mr. jobs isn’t providing anything new that will help you.)

one more thing. he announced new imac colours, meanwhile other manufacturers are announcing their new speed breakthroughs. hmmm…

26

a solution isn’t needed for a problem that doesn’t exist.

27

Kilgore Trout:

Yep. And it was a mistake. And Apple has pretty much admitted that. Not shipping any more, and one less thing for you to try to make a big deal about.

[I’m sorry they’re changing the keyboards though…I hate huge clunky keyboards, and loved the smaller ones. Oh, well, I’ve already got mine…]

Yes, optical mice have been around for a while; I’m using one on the ancient SPARCstation at work. Nice to see them as standard equipment, though.

People who specialize in studying ergonomics and RSI. The main idea behind the new design is that there are multiple ways to click. Different people, different computing setups, different needs.

And I believe the reason the pivot point was mentioned (provoking the “problem that doesn’t exist” comment) was not because people have in the past rested their hand on the mouse button, but because upon hearing of and thinking about the design one would be naturally curious how one avoids a permanent click. JayLa was just explaining how it worked.

Um, because Apple is a business, and have the objective of making money, perhaps? If you hadn’t noticed, being different has been quite a good thing for the company for the last couple of years. You don’t have to like it, but the motives are not exactly secret.

28

not me. my fingers are too fat for the keyboards at work. : )
bring me a clunky keyboard anytime.

but yeah, i’m all for being different. innovation is great. but when it decreases productivity, it ceases to be a benefit.

i think apple goes too far.

(i wasn’t aware that they admitted the round mouse mistake)

29

I’ve heard people bitch about the “cuteness” of the latest Macs, and the important of color and appearance. You PC users claim that beige is good enough for you, and all this color and aesthetics stuff is crap.

But I ask you, do you all feel the same way about your cars? Shouldn’t cars be all beige and plain-looking too? What’s the big deal about different models, and colors, and the overall appearance of a car? Why don’t we all just drive butt-ugly beige cars? Why do some people talk about that “smart looking red sports car” with such pleasure and awe? Isn’t it “lame” to care about such things - after all, a car is just a machine to get you from point A to point B. So why is the color and appearance of a car important?

So, please. Unless you don’t give a damn about the appearance or color of your car, don’t bitch about someone else liking the idea that their computer can have a little style. And while we’re on the subject, I notice that Compaq is offering colored PC boxes. And they’re not the only PC company that is trying to add a little color to their line of computers.

I am the proud owner of both a Mac AND a PC, so I think I am in a unique position to be able to judge how these machines differ, side-by-side.

My PC crashes more, has more software coflicts. Installing new hardware is iffy. My Wacom drawing tablet is constantly being “lost” by USB. Same with my CD-RW drive - USB is very tricky. These same peripherals (I swap them back and forth between Mac and PC) work flawlessly on the iMac. My iMac has not been without problems, but like I mentioned earlier, a reformat and reinstall was SO easy and fast. I am too chicken to do such a thing with my PC. Troubleshooting is DRAMATICALLY better on a Mac. I don’t feel helpless and lost on my Mac - I usually do with Windows.

My main interest with computers right now is the Internet, email, web authoring, graphics, MP3s. So far, no problem with the Mac, no lack of adequate software. In fact, graphic programs like Photoshop are much better on the Mac. A “faster” PC (if you go by CPU speed) isn’t really “faster” than a Mac at all, in my experience. My 333 MHz PC is slower than my 266 MHz iMac. Netscape just flies on my iMac. It is noticably faster than my PC. Same with Photoshop.

As far as expense goes, I bought this iMac used, with 160 megs of RAM, and a USB Zip drive, for $800. Not bad, perhaps not as cheap as a used PC, perhaps, but not bad at all. Another thing that maybe no one has mentioned - perhaps Macs are more expensive than PCs, but they retain their value longer. A 486 or low-end Pentium is almost worthless these days. An old Mac of simular speed is still viable, and people still fight for it on places like eBay. I sold an old 6100 PowerMac (60 MHz) for $91 just a few months ago. I doubt a PC of simular vintage would sell for that much.

I don’t hate my PC, at all. But I don’t take these anti-Mac people’s spiels very seriously. I doubt many of them work with a Mac and PC side-by-side, like I do.

30

FTR: I have wroked with both Mac and PC–not literally side-by-side; I had to go to the next room over…

The PCs were capable of sharing resources and doing professional-quality video editing and animation. The Macs ran Photoshop–sometimes. Both were pretty much top-of-the-line at the time (a few years back).

The iMac is just silly–they took out all the stupedest features to remove. Why would you not inclued a real power button? When it freezes up, you have to crawl under the table and unplug it. And of course, there’s the obnoxious keyboard and mouse. Why would you not include a floppy drive? Why would they not include a right mouse button, when it is the most usefull thing in the world? It seems to me that they had the capability to make a much better computer without affecting the price (in any real way) and just chose not to. But they’re not so bad…now the iBook is the most worthless hunk of junk to be produced in years. I have a very old (relatively speaking) NEC laptop that I’ve upgraded a little for almost no money. With a zip drive attached for extra drive space, it performs as well as an iBook…what were they thinking?

Err, you’re afraid to wipe and reinstall your PC? It’s remarkably easy–I’ve done it a few times (had a virus). The only thing to do is to install DOS before Windows, even though they tell you that you don’t need to. But that’s easy, and can be obtained for free.

And I’d be happy with a car, no matter what the color… :slight_smile:

31

i take the subway. it is a drab silver and grey. : )
i agree, sure. add some colour. but when more emphasis is put on colour than is on performance, it gets a little silly. read through a mac peripheral catalogue. their copy promotes the available colours more than it does speed, or whatever.

style is fine. like i said, innovation is fine.

i use photoshop on both macs and pcs. i notice very little difference, but i am used to using the pc version more.

ok? and?

at work i use G4s and 9600s for non linear editing, photoshop, after effects, etc.
PCs are used for animation, photoshop, AE, etc.
at home i have a PC.

just letting you know that i am not blindly criticizing.

and another thing with them trying to be different. look at the G4 case. sure, it looks purdy. hooray.

do you have any idea how insulated that machine is? oh my. look how thick that plastic is. machines are supposed to be cool. another silly innovation that puts style over functionality.

32

Myrr21, you mentioned video editing.

a bad thing to do. : )

everyone knows that the NLEs available for macs destroy anything available for PC.

look at the NT versions of avid and media 100. blegh.

33

Regarding the power button on a Mac. I don’t know what you are talking about. When I need to reboot my Mac, I use the power button on the front, or the reset button on the side. No crawling under the table.

And about the mouse. I use my Wacom tablet, which also comes with a mouse. Two-button mouse, which works quite simularly on the Mac as it does on Windows. (I do the “right click” often with it on my Mac.)

I read a lot of Mac catalogs. They like to talk about “flavors”, but if they don’t mention speed, I’m not buying. No one I know is. The information is there. The flavors are mentioned because it’s fun to go on about them. God Forbid people have fun with their computers!

Different experiences, obviously. I had Photoshop on my PC for a long time, couldn’t get into it, hated using it. (Granted, I didn’t have to use it, I was just “playing” with it.) I started using Photoshop on my Mac, and something clicked! I enjoy using Photoshop on the Mac much more. And the interface seems less clunky, and there seem to be a few extra features, or at least I seem to be able to find these features easier on the Mac. Granted, I am no power user with Photoshop, I just know how I feel when using it with both platforms.

You will get more of your money back when you want to sell your old Mac, as compared to when you sell your old PC. This is a good thing. More money back is a good thing.

That’s good. And I think you are in the minority there. Most anti-Mac people I encounter do not have Macs, some of them have never owned a Mac. They often spew out old news. One of my friends is still talking about how Apple almost went belly-up. That happened several years ago - they are doing quite well right now.

I can’t comment on the G4, since I don’t have one. I can only speak from my own experience, as a typical non-professional computer user. And in my experience, Macs are less scary and difficult than PCs. No doubt in my mind.

Oh, and this DOS stuff? DOS terrifies me. It’s evil and cryptic. Just because some of this stuff seems easy as pie doesn’t mean everyone feels that way about it.

34

I mentioned editing because I was using pretty much the best editing program available (again, this was a ew years ago)–Razor. It whomped anything that you could buy for the Mac, and on top of that, the PCs could share resourcews, which the Macs couldn’t. It’s just a matter of buying the good stuff, not the PC version of a Mac program.

Power button–are you using an iMac? My former roomate has one, and when it freezes, the power button–not being a manual power button (as with most PCs and older Macs) that physically shuts off the power–is useless. You push it, but the computer is frozen–and the power button is electronic–so nothing happens. I run into this time and time again (I used to work monitering a computer lab with both PCs and Macs)…

35

iMacs are fine for people who are into computers just to surf the internet. But for people like me, a conisseur of fine old games, there would be no way to effectively use a Mac.

Does Darklands come in a non-disk mac-friendly format?

How can I play Netack or Rogue?

I don’t think Looking Glass accounted for Macs when it made System Shock.

36

Lets chat about something more civil.
Like who’s better, democrats or republicans.

Silly Myrr.

I worked with photoshop on Macs for about 6 years now. Starting on a Mac IIsi. It’s ALWAYS worked.

So to the OP, egkelly, were you planning on tearing apart your computer and building it from scratch? If so, you probably ought to listen to Myrr21. If for some strange reason, you DON’T plan on tearing apart your computer and rebuilding it from spare parts, buy a Mac.
And let me just say I agree with the pc users about the innovation issues.
In fact I just put on my potato sack and pushed my wooden cart to work today. Good enough for me. Yeah, try nailing wheels on to one of those new “metal” cars.

37

Granted it’s one of the few instances where it’s necessary for a Mac novice to RTFM, but if you’ll consult the docs for the iMac, I think you’ll find that the iMac has a reset switch (along with a hardware programmer’s key to drop into a debugger) just as every Mac since the Plus has. In this case, they’re in the cable bay on the right side of the machine – two small holes into which one inserts a straightened paper clip, the top one to reset and the lower one to break into the debugger. A little more work than accidentally bumping the reset or power buttons on a PC with one’s knee or fingers, I’ll grant, but I suppose that’s the price you pay.

My computer-using career goes back far enough to encompass using CP/M on an old Z80-based machine and VMS on a VAX11/780. I’ve been participating in and watching these Mac-PC catfights for 12 years now, including 8 working for a software company that developed Mac-PC cross-platform network products. For the last 10 years, I’ve continuously had both Macs and PCs on my desk in the office and one or more of both at home. I’m intimately acquainted with the good, bad, and ugly of the hardware and software of both platforms. I might well choose either one for a particular situation, depending on what I’d need to do.

The one constant, in all that time, is that a substantial subset of the PC zealots come off sounding harsh, strident, ignorant, and defensive. You get the occasional idiot on the Mac side as well, but far less frequently.

Myrr21:

Well, you do now. Though admittedly I had no reason to get a new case, I used essentially the same model Mac (the IIci of blessed memory) as my primary work machine for seven years, with various accelerator cards, video cards upgraded along the way, the internal drive replaced with faster, bigger ones numerous times. Had I been dissatisfied with any of the other integrated subsystems, I could have readily replaced most of them with NuBus cards made for the purpose, without have to change a single jumper on either the cards or the motherboard, and without having to spend ours resolving IRQ, DMA channel, or software interrupt conflicts. It was a dream machine to upgrade or work on – only the floppy drive would have required removal of another component to access (though I never needed to), with no cages to work around or ribbon cables running everywhere. I wouldn’t try it with an iMac (though I did add RAM to mine just after buying it, which was admittedly more hassle than it needed to be), but then the iMac isn’t marketed to people who want to tear it apart and put it back together any more than a brand new Mercedes-Benz is marketed to shadetree mechanics. You want a piece of junk to tear down, fine – go buy one. You want something that does what it’s designed to do fairly elegantly, with a minimum of hassles and a high standard of quality, get the Mercedes, or the Mac.

Apple has made some serious mistakes in the design of both their hardware and software products through the years, but they’ve also made a number of innovative leaps forward that Microsoft and/or the PC manufacturers have later adopted. I hate the round mouse on the iMac, I hated the design of the 8500/9500 series machines that required you to completely disassemble the damned things to add RAM or anything else, and so forth. But at least Apple is willing to try something new, to put something out in the marketplace and see how it works. God help us if we ever have to depend on Bill “no one will ever need more than 640K”, “now that you’ve worked out the glitches in your innovative product we’ll either knock it off or buy you out” Gates and company to advance the state of technology.

38

Re: the power button.
On the older imacs you need to use the paper clip; on the newer ones it is an actual button in the same place.

39

I have also done tech support work for both PC’s And Macs… And let me say unequivocally that end users for both systems can be equally stupid.

:-p

40

the biggest advatage to the mac, as far as home use is concerned, it is so easy to learn how the computer thinks. You can see the different components, extensions, control panels, etc…that if something is not working, it becomes very simple to overwrite the faulty piece of software…

they are very simple to troubleshoot.

Now that the OS is has stabilized it’s memory…all I can say, is that I can’t wait to be able to buy my powecube.

I do a lot of graphics work, and you better not be taking my Photoshop, Illustrator and superior printing compatibility…mmmm firewire!