I want to do some secular Bible study, where do I start?

[Gary_T]

@RivkahChaya

This, and several other books by the same author. Lays out the four-source theory of the Torah beautifully, and also makes a convincing argument that one of the four sources also wrote Joshua and Judges.

That link doesn’t show a book to me. Could you please spell out the title and author?

[NAF1138]

@cmkeller

NAF1138:

No, what’s written on the tablets are in fact the Ten Commandments (from Exodus 20:1-17/Deuteronomy 5:6-21). That’s clear from Deuteronomy 10:4.

Moses was at the top of Mount Sinai, and the Children of Israel gathered around its base, for G-d’s shouting of the Ten Commandments from the mountain. AFTER THAT, the Children of Israel told Moses that they could not bear to hear G-d’s voice any more and that he alone should hear it and convey the messages to them, and that’s when he went back up and G-d told him the instructions for the temple, ark, priestly robes, etc. But the tablets contained the text of the Ten Commandments, from that first, public communication.

You seem sincere in your desire to learn what’s actually in the Bible. But it seems like the snarky podcast guy you’re listening to is either ignorant of what it says, or is not doing a good job of conveying it (which could be quite possibly because he’s trying to amuse rather than instruct - but in that case, you should take what he says as not accurate).

Eh, it’s not as snarky as I make it sound, but no, it’s not intended to be instructional which is why I am looking for other sources. I am genuinely interested. I’m Jewish and my daughter is going to religious six and in religious school and I realized that my memories of all this are more informed my pop culture than anything so I want to find out what’s what.

Also, I have only just started on Leviticus so if there is explanation in Duteronomy that clears things up, I haven’t gotten there yet. I also want to say that you shouldn’t blame the guy who is doing the podcast for me misunderstanding stuff. Now, I believe that what you said is accurate, and it jibes with what was translated so far, but from the plain text reading I got to this point that is in no way clear.

When Moses comes back down the mountain he brings the tablets written on both sides right? This is way after the direct communication, right? But in the conversation Moses had with God they don’t go over the 10 commandments again. You can see why this would confuse a guy who is taking this in essentially as an audio book. I’m getting defensive, sorry. I just don’t want someone to be accidentally slandered because I get something wrong.

Anyway, this is why I’m looking for further study.

Any thoughts on Jacob’s family being pretty horrible? Or the story of Tamar or Dinah? Because that is stuff I also never really learned growing up, and I know my daughter’s Sunday School teacher just sort of glanced past Jacob’s story in about 5 minutes and moved on to Joseph this year (I was sitting in on that class).

I guess that’s all sort of side discussion.

How about this, here is a link towhat I am listening to. If you are interested give it a listen and let me know if it’s way off base. You can listen to “just the Bible bits,” which is strictly the translation and not the rest of the show.

[kanicbird]

I read it myself several times over very intensely, several hours per day, while attending weekly sunday church services. What I started to find is that the bible did not agree with the teachings, and that common inaccurate, unsupportable interpretations was passed down through the churches because of church authority to impose them on their ‘students’. The message given was way off.

At a magic moment all the chapters cross-linked in my mind and the picture of God was clear and apparent, a God that the churches do not talk about.

If you depend on another interpretation you are just going to accept things as you placed them as a authority figure, so the results of non-secular vs secular would be basically the same, unknowingly accepting errors that will distort the results. In that I just recommending read the book and form your own opinions, not someone’s cliff notes.

[NAF1138]

@kanicbird

In that I just recommending read the book and form your own opinions, not someone’s cliff notes.

For the record, and I probably don’t need to clarify this because the suggestions in the thread so far have all been this and have been perfect, but I am looking for historical/cultural/literary background not so much interpretation. What does the archaeological record have to say about Isrealites having ever being slaves in Egypt, do we know anything real about King David, sort of thing.

I will say that, while the podcast I am listening to is probably imperfect, it is a full word for word translation of the bible from the Hebrew and when there are options for what different words can be translated as he lets you know what he picks and why he didn’t pick the other options. He has had Rabbis and leaders of Orthodox congregations on the show to read his translation so I imagine that he is getting it close to right, if somewhat irreverent.

Also, I am sort of wishing that I had picked the story of Cain and Able being so short in the Bible rather than the 10 commandments thing as my example of something that surprised me. That would probably have been less off than the end of Exodus, which again, is weird and confusing (we can all agree on that right?)

[Dinsdale]

Just curious, is there any particular reason why you are interested in secular commentary on the OT?

When I decided I was interested in learning more about the Bible, I just decided to read the damned thing. Not entirely sure how worthwhile that effort was, but at least I was able to form some opinions of my own, rather than relying upon someone else’s opinion.

[Inner_Stickler]

I don’t know how well it stands as a scholarly work, but I found Thomas Cahill’s The Gifts of the Jews fascinating. I must have read it in high school and I was positively scandalized at his conception of God morphing from a small Mesopotamian household deity to the creator of the universe.

A year or so ago, I found this book via a dope discussion and it was fascinating as well.

I will admit that despite my atheist feelings, I love a historical analysis of religious history. I gobbled up those terrible netflix shows on the secrets of the Bible like they were chocolates and I was Cathy.

[NAF1138]

@Dinsdale

Just curious, is there any particular reason why you are interested in secular commentary on the OT?

When I decided I was interested in learning more about the Bible, I just decided to read the damned thing. Not entirely sure how worthwhile that effort was, but at least I was able to form some opinions of my own, rather than relying upon someone else’s opinion.

see the post right above your post.

@Inner_Stickler

I don’t know how well it stands as a scholarly work, but I found Thomas Cahill’s The Gifts of the Jews fascinating. I must have read it in high school and I was positively scandalized at his conception of God morphing from a small Mesopotamian household deity to the creator of the universe.

A year or so ago, I found this book via a dope discussion and it was fascinating as well.

I will admit that despite my atheist feelings, I love a historical analysis of religious history. I gobbled up those terrible netflix shows on the secrets of the Bible like they were chocolates and I was Cathy.

Thanks. These look neat. I’m adding them to my list. I really liked How The Irish Saved Civilization, so I’ll probaly bump Cahill up a slot or two.

[ITR_champion]

Realizing that the OP was less interested in the New Testament than the Old, but if that changes or if anyone else is interested in the New, some excellent books for beginners are:

Fortress Introduction to the Gospels and Jesus as a Figure in History, by Mark Allan Powell.

What Jesus Meant, What The Gospels Meant, and What Paul Meant, by Garry Wills.

[Dinsdale]

@NAF1138

see the post right above your post.

Thanks. I’d seen that, but thought it referred more to “what” than “why.” But I’ll bow out. Good luck in your studies.

[NAF1138]

@Dinsdale

Thanks. I’d seen that, but thought it referred more to “what” than “why.” But I’ll bow out. Good luck in your studies.

I’ll try again, since I wasn’t all that pleasant in my previous response. I am not really interested in other people’s opinion on what the OT means, per se, as I am in trying to give myself some context for what I am finding as I am actually reading (listening to) this particular translation of the bible, and possibly future translations. I realized pretty early on in my experience that I have no base for any of this outside Judaism, and that my own relationship with Judaism as a faith rather than an ethno/cultural identity is both fairly strained and under educated. So I found my self with two options as a way for me to gain a toehold.

1. start going to Torah study at my synagogue more often. My Rabbi is a nice guy and he would be happy to have me there. But I’m not ready to do this yet, for a variety of reasons.

2. find some other non Judaism centric way for me to gain some context.

I don’t want to do a crazy deep dive, but right now I’m finding this to be something that is both interesting to me and that I seem to not understand nearly as well as I thought I did. I want to try to change that.