Shut up dumb-ass. The OP is obviously not thirteen, and your comment about being spanked makes me think you are a first class fucking creep. Get your jollies elsewhere, fuck-wad.
What the OP said was only forgivable if he’s thirteen. Otherwise he gave himself away when he referred to the mother’s beliefs as “crap.”
I’m hurt . . . HURT, I tell you, that you think I’m a fuck-wad. :wally
IIRC, START is in fact a teenager, though I think he was more like 15 or so.
Thirteen, fifteen, the point is that the immature may get away with that behavior but adults shouldn’t. Of course some adults on these boards (not referring to you here, F H) may never be mature whatever their chronology. 
What? What the hell game are you trying to play? I’m way over 13, so try that game on me. Go ahead, try it.
Easy kiddies, take a breath… It’s not all that serious.
Start did just what decent human being in that position would have. Tried to give comfort in the only way he knows how, to someone in obvious distress. Granted, it was a presumption, as it usually is here in the US, that someone is Xtian. So what? It’s not like this is China, the predominant national religion is Xtian, after all.
Moreover, the kid was 7. He’s no doubt been told lies about the tooth fairy, the easter bunny and santa. This kind of thing is what makes childhood a magickal time, and makes those fuzzy memories well, fuzzy. And honestly, if the mother is telling the kid the truth about everything in life by his 7th birthday, I worry for his soul and spirit. She’s doing, IMO, way more damage than Start ever could have to that kid. The age of reason is not upon the child yet, comfort at that age is infinately more important than truth.
ButtonJockey<—card-carrying Pagan
Exactly who are you pitting here START, the mother? She was much nicer to you than she needed to be. If I had found you lying to my son in such a manner in his time of grief you would have been shown the door and told not to come back.
And the arrogance of this statement-
Come on, the kid is 7 years old and he wouldn’t find out whether or not his dad is in Heaven until he also died, I spent 10 minutes with him and potentially gave him 80- 93 years of comfort,
Is exceeded only by the stupidity of this one-
Come on what person religous or not do**esn’t mention Heaven when comforting a 7 year old who just lost someone close?
Why do you feel compelled to foist your superstitions upon another? At the very least you are setting him up for grief again when he realizes that his father really is dead, and not watching over him in heaven in anticipation of an eventual reunion.
You what? You what because what? What?
I was never led to believe in the easter bunny or Santa Claus. I became an atheist on my own the moment I thought about it, but my parents never raised me with any religion in mind. My memories of my youth certainly weren’t great, but that was completely unrelated. It’s because I was bullied for years before I learned how to stand up for myself, (and it wasn’t out of my lack of belief in the easter bunny, believe you me) have a little self-esteem, and not be a childish snot.
Do you worry for my soul and spirit?
This is the point, Gadfly the child is seven years old, his father just died, seemingly without warning, and if there was nothing else he was in need of, comfort is high on the list. Telling him that his father is dead, gone, and never to return is the truth, to be sure. But honestly, there isn’t a need that I can see to pierce the whimisical heart of a seven year old with the cold steel of the reality of the adult world, anymore than the death of his father already had.
His time of reason will come. He, like you, will choose his path, and follow it, until then letting a kid be a kid, and hide in the safety of imagination is, just IMO a better course of action. A child of seven shouldn’t have the knowledge of a 40 year old, just the protection.
The whole thing is such a sad situation. I really feel sorry for the kid.
I understand why you did what you did in trying to comfort him. If you’re used to dealing with religious people most of the time it’s easy to forget that not everyone believes in God or heaven. Personally, I do think that religious beliefs in heaven make it easier to cope with death.
However, I can also understand the mother’s position. Some people feel just as strongly about raising their children to be atheist as others feel about raising their children Christian. As for letting the kid believe something that’s comforting, well, I’m sure you can see how it could cause problems in the family if the child thinks the other family members are going to hell for not believing.
Personally, I don’t think either of you are really to blame for anything here. It sounds like the mother realized you had good intentions and just did her best to try to reinforce her own beliefs with the child.
I think you did the best you could but you have to keep in mind that prosletyzers do have a tendency to prey on people in times of distress so godless heathens and the like tend to be sensitive to people trying to push other religions on them when they’re in the middle of their personal grief-even if it is uninintentional and accidental. Just as an example, I’m Indian & Hindu and when my grandfather was in hospital approximately three years ago an evangelical tried approaching my mother and her sisters warning them that if he passed without being saved that they would have to deal with the consequences of his soul being in hell, which is why he needed IMMEDIATE access, of course. They basically trawl the hallways targeting the criers apparently. Why don’t you just write the mom an apology card explaining you didn’t want to convert him?
The venom showed by some of the atheists in this thread is truly disconcerting.
Actually, you should just write her an explanation letter stating that you weren’t trying to convert her son. I don’t think an apology is warranted in this case because your intentions were actually quite nice, unless it’s an apology for an unintended slight. And I say this as someone who is extremely suspicious and antagonistic towards evangelicals, having been targeted for conversion my entire life.
**START **is 16, I believe, and START, you did the best you could. Your intentions were good, and your heart is bigger than mountains. From a social perspective and a child rearing one, you might think about adding 7 more words next time:
“Some people believe…”
insert theology or atheology of your choice here
“…What do you think?”
Not only does this let the kid know that what you’re concerned, offers him comfort if he chooses to accept it, offers him an easy way out if he chooses not to accept it (“Some people believe Daddy turned into an elf and ran away to the forest? Fuck that, they’re crazy people!”), it also gives him an opportunity to tell you what he thinks, time to vent and perhaps to teach you an enlightening thing or two. It lets him know that while no one knows for sure, his ideas are just as valuable as anyone elses, which means he has the inner resources to comfort himself - he just needs a grown-up to show him how.
Heck, this is how I talk to my own kid, or even the kids of other people whose beliefs I know very well, like in my own religious group. I’ve learned some great things about God and Nature and Science from 5 year olds. (Didja ever notice that birds lined up on a telephone wire are almost all facing the same way? I didn’t until WhyKid showed me. Apparently, they’re singing to God, which I didn’t know, either. The occasional one who’s turned the other way is showing off his feathery back, thanking God for his colors. :D)
Overall, I don’t think you did lasting harm, and I think the boy’s mom recognized that. If she thought you were being a jerk, her reaction would have been much stronger than it was, I guarantee it.
It’s all a bit sad, as I can see that Start meant well. But the effect on the mourning widow was not the one intended - yes, perhaps a note of sympathy and explanation.
I understand START’s and your good intentions, and I’m sorry for the tone of my first reply. At the same time, you have to realise that everyone grieves in their own way - while a child having to cope without a concept of the afterlife might take longer to grieve, there’s something to be said for telling the truth, rather than simply putting off the pain and letting it snowball.
Also, never, ever, ever make assumptions about a person’s or family’s religious orientation if you don’t know it. This, at the least, can be embarassing, and at the very most can end friendships. Fortunately, the few times I’ve done it, it’s been simply embarassing. Have you ever sung Every Sperm is Sacred in a catholic house? Loudly? With a choir of friends? It’s quite an… Experience.
START had perfectly good intentions, and I give him kudos for them. Why am I referring to him in the third person? He’s reading this. Hey, START - I appreciate your concern. But you assumed something you shouldn’t, and as a result, ended up pissing off a parent and disappointing a child. It’s been said so many times in this thread before, and once before in this post, but it bears repeating - everyone grieves in their own way, and everyone has their own beliefs. Feel free to comfort someone who’s hurting, but never bring your religious beliefs or theirs into it, unless you know them well, especially if they’re young…
As for the validity of the “converting” remark: Think of it this way. In her eyes, even if you didn’t intend to, you just caused her child to throw two tantrums, and become very upset. She probably wasn’t very pleased. Are you always perfectly reasonable when you’re irritated or angry? Neither am I, and neither is she.
That’s a bit harsh. START does not believe that he was lying, he told the truth as he believes it, and I honestly can’t object to someone repeating what they believe to be the truth. In my post earlier, I referred to “lies” only from the POV of the mother who doesn’t believe, but it wasn’t my intention to insinuate that START was knowingly lying to the child, and I’m disappointed to see him accused of being a liar. There’s a difference between not believing in God or religion and not believing that believers are telling the truth about their beliefs. The latter crosses a line unless you have some substantial proof to back up your accustation.
Guys, I think you’re being a little harsh. START probably didn’t realize the family’s beliefs, and he just wanted to make the kid feel better. Heaven and/or an afterlife isn’t exactly exclusive to Christianity. He just wanted to make the kid feel better, and that was the best way he knew. He’s fairly young (sixteen?) so let’s cut him some slack.
Now, if he had known that the family was atheist, and still told that, then yeah, that would be a pretty shitty thing to do. But he’s young, and he just wanted the poor little boy to feel better.
Mom should have asked START to leave BEFORE going into her beliefs. She could simply have said, “Well, we don’t believe this. What’s important is that your father’s memory will always be with you, blah blah blah,” etc.
START, next time maybe you could just tell him to remember the good times, and that his father will never really be totally gone-his memory will always be with the boy, and that he would want his son to make him proud, etc.
Gee START, if your intent was just to cheer little Patrick up, imagine how much good you could have done if you told him his Dad wasn’t really dead, and would be coming back to him real soon! I’m sure he would have rather heard that than your depressing tale about having to wait until he died too to see his father again. Besides, you don’t know it isn’t true, God can do anything, right?
As a rabid, card-carrying, commie pinko baby-aborting atheist, I must say I agree. I’m ashamed of my fellow atheists today. The kid is going to have to face the reality of the universe at some point, but to foist this all on a seven year old who a) just lost his father, and b) probably still believes in Santa Claus, is unpardonably cruel. Let the kid have whatever fantasies that give him comfort. He needs comfort right now, and to take that away in the name of theological – and highly politicized – “truth” is just bad form.
We’re gearing up for a great civil war in this country. Let’s not make a grieving seven year old the battlefield.
The OP and the mother would have both done well to preface their statements with “In my belief system”, but the time for that has passed.
START, I do not agree with your theology, but you get a gold star for trying to do some good for this kid. You’re OK.