Too early? This war has been going on for four and a half years, most of which has been since Bush declared victory, and there’s no satisfying end in sight. There was no justification for it in the first place, other than out-and-out lies. Exactly when do we get to start talking about imperialist motives?
Nitpick: “Yglesias.”
But yeah, I was stunned to see Scylla’s name pop up there.
I shall re-ask my question: These descriptions still sound like a fairly normal very bad asthma attack, only without the racking coughs. How is it worse?
Front page of Boing Boing as well.
Nobody is deliberately forcing you to suffer an asthma attack. (Except God, maybe.)
Seriously? The difference being one is a personal health issue. The other, another human being is scaring the living shit out of another human being by making you think you’re about to die to “get answers”. Plus the emotional trauma for the rest of your life that goes along with it if you survive.
I would think that if one could induce a bad asthma attack on someone else at will, it too would be torture.
They did an ep on the chinese water torture.
TWEEET!
Everyone:
We have plenty of threads on the Iraq War (and you are free to open more if you need to discuss a seaparate issue in that regard).
All the by-play over that situation or the evils of the U.S. need to cease in this thread (and the borderline personal insults WILL stop or you will be Warned).
[ /Moderating ]
Fixed that for you.
I’m aware of the difference in causation (though, admittedly, there was this one person who wore a specific perfume specifically because it triggered attacks), but I was more curious about mechanics. I wasn’t asking ‘how is this worse’, I was asking ‘Is this drowning different from the sort of lack of breathing that occurs during severe asthma attacks.’
In both cases, the fluid makes it a bit difficult to breathe, though one’s water and the other is mucus. I suppose the saran wrap is a bit worse. I dunno.
Another reason to change the SDMB motto to “exposing ignorance”. Drowning is " to extinguish life by immersion in water or other liquid." or “to be suffocated in water or other liquid”. The victim does NOT have to inhale the liquid into the lungs. If breathing STOPS (and life ends) because the victim was under water, then that is drowning. In fact, many drowning victims do NOT inhale the water into their lungs but they are dead just the same.
:smack: Why am I trying to educate Der Trihs anyway? He already knows EVERYTHING, just ask him. :smack:
Waterboarding IS torture, someone who wants to argue against that point is STUPID.
That “fixing” technique is generally frowned up here (you shouldn’t edit someone else’s quote box to say something that person never said). Instead, quote them, and put your own similar interpretation in your own paragraph below the quote.
Damn Scylla. Just Damn!
Knowing what thread we’re in and not wishing the mods any extra-work during these busy days I’ll refrain from telling you what I really think of your little experiment.
In that vein, what Czarcasm said. And please, pretty please, even though we butted heads quite often in the past, I still think you’re a good guy, so DON’T even think of pulling another stunt like this one ever. EVER.
Think about your wife and kids first. And second. And third…
That said, yes, I am in awe. But I’m also in awe of many stupid things people do.
PS-“Forum.” I meat Forum, not “thread.”
Aaaarghhh!
:::tries to pull hair, realizes he has none left to pull:::
Edit function hanging. Make that “meant” not “meat.”
Guess I best run along now. Won’t even bother to read to check and see how many times I’ve botched this one or this will become the most bring endless loop ever.
You know, I think I should point out that . . . well, I am not in awe. I’m mildly impressed, but not even leaning toward characterizing your action as “heroic.” You have curiosity, and often express your life’s choices in things that have an element of danger, an element you seem to find yourself competent to control. This one seems pretty much of a pattern with that. Your experiment seems competent to me. Bat shit crazy? Maybe. But I have no problem with that.
I find your political honesty more impressive than your physical courage in this. You didn’t even offer the slightest wiggle room for those whom you have supported so vehemently in the past. (Not on this issue, but in general.) This is torture, you know it, and you reported it honestly. Bravo. Well done. It seems to me that honest Conservative Republicans should sit up and take notice of the real facts. Pardon me if I doubt that they shall.
Thank you. Merry Christmas, too.
Tris
Epic thread, Scylla. I just wanted to join the chorus of people saying thanks for doing this… even if you put yourself at risk. Reminds me of this.
This stuff really gets right to my core. Because I know it’s effective. I also know it’s over used. But in my head, lets ay you had really, really good intelligence that this man knows the date and time of a bomb that kills 400 people. Even though I’ve waterboarded myself, I’m torn between the right answer and 400 people. For the** parts where people say it will get you to say anything…** you have no more will to lie. The terror is in the fact that they aren’t letting you die, you can’t die, it’s like the ida that hell really exist and could go on for eternity. And for most of your “confessions” that are taken professionally by the CIA, people are on EGGs, and other various monitors to “detect” the truth from a lie, and facts are generally still checked before they are sent up the chain.
It’s horrible the way torture has developed because CIA style torture looks to be more “civilized”. Most of the 3rd world countries still use the main torture of physical pain, while the CIA realized that using less physical pain to inflict great mental torture is the route to go.
In the world of torture and captivity, you will hear stories of prisoners who are tortured by mentally being alone forever, and they begin to enjoy when they are taken out for beatings or for torture because they know they are still alive. Just like how prisoners often try and slight their own wrists in totally crazy ways.
I think it’s horrible to torture. **In one part of my brain:
**
I say no torture EVER, fuck the consequences. It will only take 500 years for our enemies to realize that we’ve evolved… So 500 years is a small price for maybe a few thousand people?
**other side:
**Do what we have to to protect people, and we get stuck in a wheel of torture and continued “high level” mental mind fuct.
I can’t imagine any SIN great enough to endure this shit for long. It’s as bad as the concept of hell. I mean WHO actually would be a candidate for ETERNITY of brimstone and fire (lava) where you, cant die, and the pain goes on forever, forever, forever, and forever…?
Forever is too long for any punishment, even if you did a lifetime of evil…
The best answer I’ve heard is this: keep torture illegal. Make it a serious crime. Make it punishable by years in prison.
And then, if you’re in a circumstance in which you are deciding whether to torture someone, you’re not just weighing the victim’s wellbeing against those of other people. You’re weighing your own wellbeing against those of other people. If it’s worth it for your own personal sacrifice to torture someone, go ahead and do it.
If you save hundreds of people, you’ll be lauded as a hero. When you get out of prison, someone will probably offer you a job.
Daniel
Get on the board.