I went to a Society of Friends meeting today

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Also known as the Quakers.

My therapist keeps recommending that I go to church (specifically a UU church, since I’m agnostic). I did follow her advice twice, and both times I felt unmotivated to go back even though the people were all nice and friendly. See, I know church very well. I was raised in a church-going household, with very church-going parents. And I’ve never felt a sense of community and belongingness at church. In fact, I have felt quite the opposite, for reasons I can’t quite articulate. So the constant suggestion to go to church kept bugging the hell out of me. But I figure I have to get well somehow, and sitting on my couch watching “The Sopranos” reruns on A&E isn’t really going to get me there.

So I decided to keep going the alternative Christrian route and look into the Society of Friends. Lo and behold, there’s a meeting house just a little less than a mile from me! If it had been outside of walking distance, I wouldn’t have bothered, but with it just being right around the corner I didn’t have an excuse. I read up on the philosophy, history, and style of worship and came to the conclusion that I might actually be excited about attending such a service.

I got the sense that there would be no program, no rituals, no sweaty-faced preacher, no organ playing, no cheesy praise team with calls to stand up and hoot and holler like we were at a football game. No one speaking in tongues, rolling in the aisles, or tourettic screams of “AMEN!” No expectation to look a certain way, believe a certain way, or really act a certain way, except to be quietly contemplative and nondisruptive. No altar calls either.

And that’s exactly how it turned out to be.

Much of the hour, I’d say 86% of it, was completely quiet, and the sanctuary was almost completely full. I expected a lot of bowed heads and pious postures, but people were just sitting there, maybe with their eyes closed, maybe not. Occassionally someone would stand up and talk about their feelings, their inner turmoil about current events and how God was helping them through it. Or they would express a desire for unity and mutual understanding from both pro-Obamites and anti-Obamites (there were more than a few of these testimonies). A few scriptures were cited and quoted and related to whatever revelation the person had. One was particularly deep and made me, an agnostic, waver a little in my doubt and nod my head in agreement with the expressed wisdom.

Towards the end, I was moved to speak. I didn’t sense an “inner light” or anything; I just felt compelled to stand up and open my mouth. I told a story about something trivial that had happened to me last week that had yet managed to bring me tremenduous psychic pain. But the story had a happy ending, one that kind of tied into what previous Friends had testified. I was nervous as I spoke, but I was surprisingly eloquent. I mentioned God, but I don’t feel like I betrayed my agnosticism. Later, someone else stood up and referenced what I had said, saying that I had voiced the same feelings she had. It felt very much like being on a message board in some ways. You know, someone posts something and then no one says anything for a while, and then someone posts something that may or may not be directly relevant, but still kind of moves everyone in the same direction. It was the perfect arena for a person like myself, and maybe other Dopers (except cussing probably isn’t a good idea;))

After the hour-long meeting, people came over and introduced themselves and said they wanted me to come back. An old man even walked across the room and hugged me. Church people have welcomed me before, of course. But this time I felt these people were genuine. They saw me at my rawest and they weren’t afraid or embarrassed. They were Christ-like, in the way Christians are supposed to be.

I may come back. I’m not sure because these folks are believers in Jesus Christ and I’m not sure what I feel anymore. Nor do I want to put on an act. But I may come back, just for the peace and quiet safety of that sanctuary.

Regardless, I’m going to look at the Quaker Oats man a little differently from now on.

2

One of the (perhaps) surprising datums to come from the Okinawan Centenarian Study (go with me here) was that the long-lived among Okinawan universally had daily “psycho-spiritual” activity (i.e. prayer, offerings to ancestors, et cetera), which is presumed to be a significant factor in the low stress traditional lifestyle and the comparative longevity and general good health of Okinawans. Traditional Ryukyuan religion is a hodgepodge of different religions and spiritual practices, including animism, shamanism and ancestor worship, Shintoism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity. The religion is not particularly well-organized or programmed, and in that sense at least is similar to Unitarianism or RSOF (Quakers). It is very much family-centered, with the elder female essentially being “head priestess”, but actual participation in ceremony varies widely; nonetheless, for traditional members of Okinawan society it is a core social activity that brings people together and provides both comfort and a sense of continuity through stressful events.

Regardless of the merits of the actual beliefs (which I think are as much balderdash as any other religion) there is clearly an advantage to both participating in social activities and having a sense of worth and continuance that goes beyond one self, reducing the feelings of isolation and detachment that accompany depression and other mental illnesses. Even if you can’t muster up any belief in the spiritual aspects of worship (which, for Quakerism is really pretty minimal) then you may still get significant benefit from the social contact, particularly with people who are as welcoming and accepting as you describe.

My experiences with UU (admittedly limited) is that it largely amounted to a semi-intellectual debating society with bad music in the guise of a church. A nice bunch of people to be sure, but not especially satisfying on either an intellectual or emotional level. Maybe that was just me, but I really have no desire to go to another UU service.

As for “[not wanting] to put on an act,” with regard to Quakers, you needn’t worry. My experience with Quakers is that they do essentially no proselytizing, and while some churches have more structured services than you describe, there is none of the “fire-and-brimstone,” business that is the mainstay of most Protestant churches, nor would you be pressured to endorse or an accept a belief, even if you stated your agnosticism bluntly. If it felt comfortable and good, by all means go back. You don’t have to buy into the belief, or read their Bible, or misrepresent yourself to be there. Just go and do whatever seems comfortable.

Stranger

3

If I had a therapist that told me to go to church, I’d get another therapist.

Probably a religious therapist trying to get you to see “the light.”

Is this a trained psychologist/psychiatrist, or a “certified therapist” or “counselor” or some other BS term. Anybody who does counseling but isn’t an actual practitioner of psychiatric medicine is probably a religious kook who “wants to help people” but didn’t care to bother with getting a psych degree because “god is all the training I need.”

4

She wears her Jewish heritage quite proudly on her sleeve, so it’s not like she’s pushing Christianity on me. She just wants me to get out and join a group that can facilitate friendship and connectedness. For good or bad, church is the main social outlet and center of community for many people. Since my discomfort with my agnoticism has come up before, though not often, I can’t really blame her completely for beating the UU drumbeat. But yes, my doctor should probably stop bringing it up so much.

I imagine it’s tough for a therapist to help someone who just doesn’t like being around people but really needs to stop being so isolated. So I have as much patience for her as she does for me.

5

Maybe some kind of club would be better-advised than any kind of group with a religious bend.

I’ve always missed the group dynamic I had when I went to church, and I haven’t really found a suitable replacement short of getting together with a couple of friends. I’m a bit of an asocial wank, though. If I went to therapy, I’d probably be told to try to join a group of some sort, and I’d say lets try to work around that particular issue.

6

Oh, I’ve tried other things. Did the bridge thing and hated it. I did the pottery class thing and loved making things with clay, but not the being-around-people-and-talking-about-it part. Did the orchestra thing and didn’t hate it, but found it to be too time-consuming. Did a volunteer event and enjoyed it, but it was a one-time thing and I didn’t get to bond with the other volunteers.

Like I said before, if you’re a therapist and your patient has tried all of the above and is still not making progress, you bring up the obvious. Church.

If your problem is having no friends, it seems like there really is no “work around” other than joining a group of some type. It’s not like adults can go up to each other on the playground and say, “Wanna be my friend?” I wish it was that easy.

7

monstro, if it made you happy to go, then go! Seems like you were pretty well accepted, and the Quakers are traditionally pretty accepting people, so even if you’re not sure that you agree with all their beliefs (and from what I know of Quakers, no one at a Meeting agrees with everything, and that’s OK by them).

I was a little surprised to hear that a therapist suggested church, but apparently she wasn’t far off the mark.

8

My girlfriend and I both go to Quaker meetings regularly. We love them. It’s like a slightly different take on a Buddhist meeting (if you go to a Hicksite branch, which believes in the silent prayer without any sort of intermediary like a pastor). I don’t consider myself “religious” at all, but I’ve found the meetings both enlightening and rewarding; the people are also incredibly friendly and genuine.

9

How very cool, monstro. I had no idea Quaker services were like that. It sounds as if it’s a good balance of solace & peace with fellowship - but not too much fellowship!

10

I don’t know what could be more spiritually rich than listening quietly for the voice of God.

11

I’ve known a few Quakers in my time and never met one who was an arse. If you’re prone to being anti-social but looking to try and socialise a wee bit, then you couldn’t really pick a nicer group of folk to get together with.

12

My wife is a Quaker, as are my kids. We were married in the Friends Meeting in DC. I’m an unobservant mostly-atheist, but I respect the Quaker tradition very much.

You are very welcome there, I’m sure, monstro, so if you enjoy it, do it!

13

Well, not that you’ve met him, but there is Nixon.

Nevertheless, if this makes you happier, go for it!

Right now I’m trying to get with it and really keep up with a daily meditation practice, as well as practicing other forms of positivity, and happily I’ve become very involved in a volunteer organization that has some cool people who have a lot in common with me. I figure between the two things, I’ve got my RDA of “church” as far as health and psychological benefits go.

If you can find a place of accepting people who offer you support, why not go there? You don’t have to believe what they believe, evidently, to participate.

14

Quakers are cool. I’m UU, and we have a lot of Quaker speakers come talk to us. The two faiths are sort of partner faiths. I have the feelings Stranger outlined - that participating in a “spiritual” practice brings benefits - and it doesn’t have to be God centered, just an opportunity to reflect and a community of acceptance. Quakers have that down like no-one’s business.

(And my UU church has really, really good music. And a minister. A full time music director. And its debate doesn’t happen on Sundays during service - that’s for sermons and song - you have to go looking for the debate. But the thing with UUs is that there is huge variation in practice and size (smaller churches are usually lay lead, much less having a music director)

15

Quakerism is pleasant and comforting, and going to meeting for worship is a wornderful experience. I’m a devout athiest but went to a Quaker boarding school and attended these meetings twice a week for years.

BTW there are two kinds of Quaker meetings - the other kind is “meeting for business” and is how Friends organize and carry out some community efforts, like creating schools.

And I’m pretty sure Nixon wasn’t himself actually a Quaker, but came from Quaker roots.

16

And that would be your choice and your decision. Obviously, the OP chose differently and had a positive experience.

My therapist asked me specifically is I wanted any type of religious focus in our sessions (she has training in that and her husband is a pastor). When I said no, it was never mentioned again. Not all religious types proselytize or use their faith as a weapon. I went to her for over 2 years and we only discussed God if I wanted to–there was no preaching, no suggested scripture, no prayers in our sessions.

How are psychiatrists exempt from being kooks? I’ve known several psychiatrists socially and most of them are weird as hell, frankly. A licensed psychologist can be as helpful if not more so than any shrink. Much of therapy depends upon the chemistry between client and counselor, not what initials are behind whose name.

Anyway, I’ve always liked the Quakers and would (someday) like to explore them a bit more. I like the egalitarian nature and the lack of social pomp.

17

Quakerism is all about “the inner light”. It’s a far more spiritual type faith than, say, the Free Will Baptists. My wife and I are quakers, but the unprogrammed services are too far away for us to attend regularly. Those are the ones where people sit quietly, contemplating the inner light. A few will speak, but it’s spontaneous and free flowing. The other kind of service is called “programmed”, and it’s more like a Baptist church, with preaching and singing and all that. We don’t care for that.