I work in a Military Prison. Ask me anything (Part II)

[SSG_Schwartz]

@JoseB

Greetings from the Netherlands! I have read both of your threads and I found them very interesting. Thanks for letting us ask you questions!

My question – Has it ever happened that a guard abuses his or her authority and mistreats inmates in any of your prisons? How are they disciplined in such a case? (I imagine that it may have happened – However, I also imagine that it likely is a rare occurrence).

(This came into my mind because I remembered what happened to my father after the Spanish Civil War was over, and he was sent to military prison basically for having been in the losing side. His experiences were… not pretty).

All the best,

JoseB

I was talking with a former NCOIC of the USDB (NCOIC, in case you didn’t know is the guy in charge of the day to day operations of the facility). Back many years ago, to get sentenced to Leavenworth was a scary. Now, not so much. Sure there are some young correctional staff (we don’t call them guards anymore) who like to write up the inmates on minor offenses, but there is no abuse from the staff. If anyone does abuse an inmate, he or she would get punished. The punishment would range from having to teach a class on how to properly interact with inmates (if you told an inmate to f**k off) up to going to jail (if you struck an inmate for no reason.) The most common reaction to a serious violation of conduct by the staff is to revoke the staff member’s badge until the investigation is completed. If the charges of abuse, cruelty or mistreatment are unfounded, the badge is returned. If they are founded, the badge may be permanently revoked or charges filed.

@Loach

After you had dropped off the face of the earth I was afraid you had gotten in trouble for the last thread.

Yeah, sorry. I was in over my head when I first started and did not have the proper mindset to come on here.

@Intergalactic_Gladiator

Welcome back and congrats on the promotion.

Do you see a significant amount of certain MOSs in prison? Not to pick on the 11Bs but are there more infantry than finance clerks or another non-combat arms MOS, for instance?

You may have touched on this in your last thread and I’d have to look back if you did, but what are the differences between putting officers and enlisted in prison? Both are busted down but they’re separated, right?

Thank-you.

There is a really wide variety of MOS’s and AFOC’s and rates. It really seems as though the job does not make a big difference to whether the person is an inmate. I have seen everything from a personnel specialist charged with pre-meditated murder to Infantry guys charged with selling drugs. Granted, I have not seen any finance clerks confined, but I have seen cooks and truck drivers.

Officers and enlisted are housed in the same housing units when they get to the USDB. Both lose all rank while they are confined. Sometimes Officers have an easier time being placed in charge of the housing units because they have been in a leadership position before and are used to the responsibility. Some of the Officers still try to maintain their rank when they are confined. The biggest difference between the two is that the Enlisted that are confined usually look for a leader while they Officers think they are the leader.

SFC Schwartz

[SSG_Schwartz]

@Meatros

I didn’t see the last thread, so this might be a repeat, but: IYO, how does a Military Prison differ from a regular prison (in general)?

How does it differ from the guards perspective?

How does it differ from the prisoner’s perspective?

In terms of operation, it does not vary much from any federal prison. We are accredited by the same agency that accredits federal prisons and we are held to the same standards. The biggest difference is that there is a baseline level of intelligence in a Military prison. There are also fewer mental disorders. Because of that and because of the discipline instilled in Military members, we have a much safer prison than the federal system. Our most recent evaluation received the first 100% score ever given out by the accrediting agency.

None of the correctional staff have ever worked inside any other prison system, but some of the inmates have done time in the state system or regional jails while in pre-trial confinement or waiting in post-trial confinement to be transferred to the USDB. They have said that they feel safer. Really, though the biggest difference is that the inmates know how to conduct themselves, they know they have to work daily and they have to maintain their living areas to a certain standard. It makes it easier when they know that they have to abide by the rules instead of making it a challenge to get them to live up to the standard.

@Quartz

What happens when an inmate succeeds at appeal or is otherwise vindicated / found innocent?

We had one in the last year or so who was acquitted on re-trial. He had won an appeal. He was to return to duty with back pay for the time spent in prison. I think his back pay was over $100K. Unfortunately, on the retrial he was convicted of a second charge and was sentenced to time served. Just so you don’t think the Military wanted to avoid the cost of paying him the lost salary, he was convicted of rape, kidnapping and assault. The rape charge was overturned, but the kidnapping and assault were pretty clear. He did get returned to duty however and went back to the last unit he was at prior to confinement.

@lost4life

I was not expecting that answer…wow! Is this specific to your location, as in, is that the place they send the sex offenders, or would guess it’s like that everywhere?

No, unfortunately, it isn’t like we send the sex offenders to the USDB. Most have some heinous aspect to their crimes that gets them a long sentence. There are a lot that don’t get a long enough sentence to merit being sentenced to the USDB. We are currently accepting only those with a sentence of ten years or more. The others go to a Regional Confinement Facility.

It really seems to me that either sex offenders are getting caught more, or that the sentences are getting longer. See the answer below for more information.

@Rachellelogram

When you say sex offenses against children, do you mean like possession of pornography, distribution of pornography, or the in-person sexual abuse of actual children? Or all of these things? Do you know what the breakdown is?

Most of the guys who only distribute child porn get sentenced to a Military Prison, but it is a regional confinement facility. As I stated above, most of the guys we get have some heinous aspect (I hate using that word, it sound so cliche, but so apt). Most of the inmates we have are there for actually touching children in a sexual manner. When I say children, I mean from as old as 15 down to four months old. If a person makes it to my facility for child porn, he has usually been charged with taking the pictures or distribution is an additional charge in addition to actually in-person molesting kids.

Most assault their step-children. According to the statistics. that means they are less likely to re-offend. We don’t get a lot of inmates who target neighborhood kids.

I could look up the breakdown, but honestly, I have only seen two who were sentence to the minimum sentence for my facility and who had not actually had an in-person child victim.

SFC Schwartz

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Welcome back, congrats on your promotion, and as ever, thank you for your service to our country!

Other than the promotion, anything particularly noteworthy happen at the USDB since you started your previous thread?

Any unanswered questions from before that you think you would now be able to answer?

Any questions we haven’t asked yet that you’ve been just dying to answer?

Ooo, here’s a new one, I think: Any prison movies that you think are particularly good and/or accurate?

[SSG_Schwartz]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Welcome back, congrats on your promotion, and as ever, thank you for your service to our country!

Other than the promotion, anything particularly noteworthy happen at the USDB since you started your previous thread?

Any unanswered questions from before that you think you would now be able to answer?

Any questions we haven’t asked yet that you’ve been just dying to answer?

Ooo, here’s a new one, I think: Any prison movies that you think are particularly good and/or accurate?

Thank you for your support. I am but a cog in the system, but I do like the thanks.

We have had two fameous (or infamous) guests arrive at the facility near us. If you have seen the news for the last year, you know who they are. I can’t comment on either of the two.

There are a couple of things I may have said before, but I think should be said about my prison.

First, rape is uncommon. An inmate is more likely to be raped before he enlists in the Military or after when he is out in the community than he is to be raped in the USDB. It isn’t that male on male sexual assault is not reported. It is that it doesn’t happen in my facility.

One thing I meant to get back to previously was the housing of Officers. If an Officer is confined prior to his/her trial, the Officer may be housed in a Regional Confinement Facility. Most, however, are confined to local jails. When the sentence is passed, the Officers will be housed in my facility regardless of the sentence. It isn’t that there is a reason to keep the Officers in a jail, it just means that there is less of a chance that the Officer will see a Soldier that they used to command.

SFC Schwartz

[SSG_Schwartz]

I got something to add that I may have said before. If I offend someone, it may have to be done.

Look, NCO’s, DO YOUR FUCKING JOB! If the Soldier is telling you he is having problems with his wife, are you meeting with the Soldier and the spouse? Do you even know where your Soldiers live? Are you getting out to the SSQ and checking to see how these guys are living or are you relying on the fact you don’t have Soldiers in the SSQ and feel that stopping by the SSQ is outside of your lane?

Do you know how many children your Soldiers and NCO’s have? Have you spent a minute to talk to their children? Do you know where the spouse works? Is s/he ever at the promotion/award ceremonies?

Does your Soldier or NCO never leave home on the weekends? Do you know why? If the Soldier goes out, do you know where? Do you care? Do you call your Soldier on Saturday afternoon to include them in a pick-up game, or do you value your free time more?

Look, this ain’t to trash the NCO’s who may read this. This is also not to say that you may be responsible for the reprehensible things your Soldier or NCO may do. This is only a suggestion for those Leaders who care about more than stripes. Those that care about taking care of Soldiers and helping them before an Oops becomes an Oh Shit.

SFC Schwartz

[Projammer]

Do the prisoners tend to form up into groups or cliques like they do in the civilian system? My BiL is a nurse in the local federal prison so I get to hear some of the more interesting stories.

[SSG_Schwartz]

@Projammer

Do the prisoners tend to form up into groups or cliques like they do in the civilian system? My BiL is a nurse in the local federal prison so I get to hear some of the more interesting stories.

Not as much as you would think. There are racial divisions, but it isn’t about race. Each inmate joins a section when they first arrive to general population. The sections are “White Cats,” “Brother section,” and the Hispanics. The Hispanics pretty much take all the races that are not white or black. (For example, Philippine, Samoan, Native American, etc.)

The divisions are not about race, as I said, so much as there are three TV’s in each housing unit. There are six phones in each housing unit, with two in each section, and there are three tables in each section.

The divisions make it easier for a new guy to know what TV he can watch or where he can sit at a table. It also ensures that each inmate has a TV to watch or a table to sit at. The racial divides come in because it is easy to see two Brothers sitting in a section and realize that you may not be welcome there if you are white, but know you can sit down if you are black.

The divisions also give some of the newer or socially awkward guys someone to talk to if they have problems. Suppose you were new to prison and a small of stature person and an older and bigger inmate took your shoes. You would have to fight and lose if you didn’t have a senior person of your section to talk to the person who took from you.

Again, dividing by race is just an easy way to identify who will represent you in a problem.

The inmates also divide by length of sentence. The short term inmates will have a harder time making friends with the longer term inmates. It isn’t a hard rule, but most of the long term inmates don’t really want to get to know someone who will be out in 10 years because then they will see a lot of people come and go, knowing they will be there even longer.

Marines seem to flock together. Maybe because they believe the, “Once a Marine, always a Marine” credo, or maybe because it is a common bond.

Special Forces, Rangers, and special skills like that seem to hang out together for the same reason as the Marines.

One difference is that there are not cliques. A white inmate could approach a black inmate with a problem if he is the only section leader around. He could tell the leader his problem and may get a solution or may get told that it will be talked about by the other section leaders. The problem won’t be ignored mostly because the inmates don’t want the cops (guards) involved in the day-to-day business of running the housing unit.
SFC Schwartz

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Many thanks again for this thread, which is fascinating, and for your service.

[Ranger_Jeff]

Back in my time there were 2 general types of UCMJ violations: Criminal offenses that would get civilians in prison (murder, rape, assault, burglary, etc.) and Offenses against Military Discipline. There were major ones (desertion, cowardice under fire, missing movement, etc.) and the minor ones (telling your sergeant “Fuck you! This rifle is clean!”, etc. ). I’ve heard that since the VOLAR came about, rather than stick minor offenders in the stockade and assigning soldiers to guard them, the Military has become more likely to General, Administrative, or Bad Conduct Discharge those chronic minor offenders on the basic principle that it’s easier to get rid of a PITA that way.

What are your thoughts/observations on this theory?

[Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley]

Sargent, I’m enjoying this thread, but I would enjoy it so much more without all the acronyms. I frequently have no idea what you’re talking about.

[purplehorseshoe]

Explanation of an NCO (non-commissioned officer) since I had to go and look that up. His rant makes much more sense after a glance at the wiki page.

Adding to the thanks for your service, and for this thread. You may just be a cog in the machine, but you’re *good *at your particular cogginess and I appreciate your insights and information.

[Agent_Foxtrot]

Have any inmates ever been found to be holding a sexual/romantic relationship with a guard? I assume that’s off-limits; what happens to the inmate and guard in that case?

[Mama_Zappa]

@SSG_Schwartz

…Those that care about taking care of Soldiers and helping them before an Oops becomes an Oh Shit.

SFC Schwartz

Can you give us some examples of where Oops did become Oh Shit (or where that was prevented)? Obviously nothing too detailed, but you have obviously heard a LOT of stories.

[What_the]

@SSG_Schwartz

In terms of operation, it does not vary much from any federal prison. We are accredited by the same agency that accredits federal prisons and we are held to the same standards.
SFC Schwartz

So the exact same standards with regard to “cruel and unusual” punishment apply?

Do the inmates have the same access to legal people/materials and tendency to file appeals or complaints while incarcerated?

[Shodan]

No question, but welcome back, congratulations, and thanks for your service.

Regards,
Shodan

[SSG_Schwartz]

@Agent_Foxtrot

Have any inmates ever been found to be holding a sexual/romantic relationship with a guard? I assume that’s off-limits; what happens to the inmate and guard in that case?

I can’t comment on the details, but we did have a female guard who gave birth to the child of an inmate. She was in confinement when the child was born and the inmate was eventually granted parole.

There was another case in which a male guard (they are called correctional specialists now) was propositioned by a male inmate. Money exchanged hands and the correctional specialist had enough to buy a new pick-up truck.

@Mama_Zappa

Can you give us some examples of where Oops did become Oh Shit (or where that was prevented)? Obviously nothing too detailed, but you have obviously heard a LOT of stories.

Usually it is something simple. Say a staff member likes the company of an inmate, or finds out that the inmate is a rabid sports fan. There are some staff members or correctional specialists who will make an appointment for the inmate just so they have a chance to talk with the inmate. Most of the time, the inmate will show up and just talk, but it could lead to friendship with the inmate and special privileges.

I don’t know where an Oops became an Oh Shit, but the inmates have been found with cell phone batteries and cell phone chargers. In most cases, it looks like a staff member either brought them in, or allowed them in.

@What_the

So the exact same standards with regard to “cruel and unusual” punishment apply?

Do the inmates have the same access to legal people/materials and tendency to file appeals or complaints while incarcerated?

All inmates confined at my facility automatically get a procedural appeal. That means that the trial will be reviewed in order to ensure that the rules of the courts martial are followed.

Most of the inmates who arrive who plead something other than guilty to all charges will have some sort of appeal filed. Inmates can also file for clemency. That is, if an inmate feels he got a harsher sentence than someone who committed the same crime, or if the inmate did some good things while behind bars, his sentence may be re-evaluated and a lower sentence may be granted.

Cruel and unusual still applies to my facility. The inmates are actually treated better than those under Federal Custody and much better than those in State custody. Some can get time off their sentence if they had a very hard time in pre-trial confinement, but for the most part, our inmates are treated well and have little ground for an 8th Amendment argument.
SFC Schwartz

[Elendil_s_Heir]

Think you might’ve overlooked this:

@Elendil_s_Heir

…Any prison movies that you think are particularly good and/or accurate?

[SSG_Schwartz]

@Elendil_s_Heir

Think you might’ve overlooked this:

Prison movies that are good, I would say Death Race with Jason Statham. Prison movies that are accurate, I don’t know of any. I’m not saying that there aren’t any, just that I don’t watch those types of movies or discuss them at work.

SFC Schwartz

[JerrySTL]

SFC Schwartz,
If you could get into any trouble answering my question, don’t. Don’t even tell me that you can’t!

Anyway, have you ever run into a prisoner who tried to blow up a civilian aircraft just to kill his wife? I was in the USAF and taught aircraft maintenance for about half my career. I had a student who was formerly an demolitions expert in the Army, then joined the USAF. Around 1982-84 he applied both his explosives training and aircraft knowledge to plant a bomb in his wife’s suitcase. It had a barometric switch which was suppose to trigger the bomb at altitude. Fortunately it failed to work.

His arrest was in the Air Force Times back then, but I never heard anything after that.

[SSG_Schwartz]

@JerrySTL

SFC Schwartz,
If you could get into any trouble answering my question, don’t. Don’t even tell me that you can’t!

Anyway, have you ever run into a prisoner who tried to blow up a civilian aircraft just to kill his wife? I was in the USAF and taught aircraft maintenance for about half my career. I had a student who was formerly an demolitions expert in the Army, then joined the USAF. Around 1982-84 he applied both his explosives training and aircraft knowledge to plant a bomb in his wife’s suitcase. It had a barometric switch which was suppose to trigger the bomb at altitude. Fortunately it failed to work.

His arrest was in the Air Force Times back then, but I never heard anything after that.

I can honestly say I have no idea what you are talking about.

SFC Schwartz